Noisy timing belt even after change, STILL

[MacColl]

Over a month back I thought what was an alternator or water pump noise was actually my timing belt which appeared worn on it's edge for some reason. So kindly bengould fitted a new belt with a new tensioner. It was initially squealing and after we loosened it off seemed fine. However after a few hundred miles when up to temperature it sounds noisy like before it was replaced like a ticking/city taxi kind of noise. I think it is the tensioner that is making the noise but not totally sure. The belt seems fine no bad wear The car has never had noisy tappets or anything since I've owned it, the only thing that seemed possible when Ben and myself had worked on the car was the lower cover might have been rubbing.

I am driving a good few miles north tomorrow(today) for a job interview on Monday and I am a bit paranoid about it. So I had filmed it, the noise seems louder when the Mobile filming is closest to the tensioner. It's a Gates belt and tensioner if that means anything sorry it seems to buffer a lot on my rubbish internet


Any thoughts or ideas? or is it actually fine? Might be meeting up with Ben next week for a garage get together just thought it might be worth asking anyway.

[polov8]

the lower timing cover always distorts over time, so it's not unusual for belts to rub, but usually it's the alternator belt doing the rubbing. It tends also to rub on the double plastic plug on the metal cover too.

My advice would be to remove both timing belt covers, and fire it up without the alternator belt on. Obviously this means you'll have no water pump running, but from cold, you should be fine for a minute or so of diagnosis. Any noises then means it must be either timing belt/tensioner related, or another area of the engine that just sounds like it's coming from the timing belt area

[gayle]

did you change the lower belt cover when you were doing it?

[bengould]

No, we just changed the belt and tensioner. That was the morning before we went to knockhill, we only discovered the lower cover issue when we did yours.

Ben

[gayle]

Might be worth changing it incase its contagious?

[klittle]

Just a thought as I just fitted a new timing belt after stripping the head, but you did remember to tighten the single allen head bolt directly behind the bottom pulley? I had the sudden realisation that I forgot to tighten the one on mine & had to take the pulley off again. I could imagine this rattling off the inside of the pulley causing a rattle from h ell I not easily spotted. Just an idea for you anyways.

[MacColl]

Just driven a 250mile round trip up to Fort William and there doesn't seem to be anything that sounds worse, just I think carb freezing at high altitudes. Really need to get the cover off again and as mentioned maybe briefly run without covers. These covers do seem to get out of shape and not line up after years of use. I also appreciate that there are metal ring parts embeded in the plastic which might also be the issue.

Interesting klittle you mention a bolt? is this a bolt for the lower cover? or something I am not appreciating. Have to admit when ben had changed the belt and then we adjusted it along with dealing similar issues with gayles car I may have missed what you mean. At least some interference from cover/ and or bolt rattling isn't going to be more terminal.

The question also is, where do you get decent lower and higher covers with proper timing/ reference marks? VW or heritage I assume I bought a pair that barely matched each other and tbh don't really look usable. Bought from one of the ebay companies a while back.

[bengould]

Just a thought as I just fitted a new timing belt after stripping the head, but you did remember to tighten the single allen head bolt directly behind the bottom pulley? I had the sudden realisation that I forgot to tighten the one on mine & had to take the pulley off again. I could imagine this rattling off the inside of the pulley causing a rattle from h ell I not easily spotted. Just an idea for you anyways.

I'm 99% sure we put that one back in. Although we've have had so many covers off and on recently it's possible we could have missed it.

Ben

[MacColl]

Yup as gayle says it's contagious issue lol. It's called Rocco clown caritous.

Can check that bolt at some point ben, I am thinking it can't be anything serious, not as bad the noise gayle had with hers.

[james butler]

ive just had a thought, when you changed the tensioner did you put a new stud in the head?
if that was bent then that would put the tensioner on the piss and make it rub on the covers.
worth a try.

[MacColl]

So it's a few months on and I still have this timing belt noise. Yes the whining went with the correct adjustment of the pulley up the way weeks ago but I still get this ticking noise that I would describe as sounding like an old Edinburgh Taxi. This only occurs when the car is fully up to temp.

I know it isn't the water pump, alternator, alternator belt and there is no rubbing on the cowling. I even just changed the adjuster Pulley again. The old Pulley has no signs of wear. You can see there are metal filings bellow the belt that I now think are coming off the belt, here's a video..



What I discovered after closely examining the belt in motion is it seems to move side to side ever so slightly? I recall the old belt did this more and had wear marks on the sides. A garage that I trust Hoods in Kilmarnock suggested running water over the belt can indicate things that I thought was a bit weird but the minute I did this the noise just disappeared only to gradually come back as the water evaporated.

So thoughts? Is there anything the belt once things expand is rubbing hitting/rubbing off other than the adjuster pulley? or are the cam or sprockets slightly bent from previous over tensioning?

Sorry not the best at getting to the point, a bit dyslexic but really want to resolve this once and for all.

[james butler]

sounds like the belt is still too tight.
when an engine is hot it will expand so the belt will go tight.
try twisting the belt to check the tension you should comfertably be able to twist it 90 degrees. if you cant its too tight.
this will explain why when you first fired it up it was making noise untill you slackened off the belt.
only other thing it could be is if its a directional belt fitted the wrong way round.
cant remember how u would check this though

[MacColl]

I have loosened the belt as much as I dare a number of times and also since I tried another adjuster Pulley, I'll maybe try loosening further than before and carefully see what happens. The whining noises I had previously were resolved this way. This noise is more a metal ticking noise and I do understand that metal parts expand, so what is this? I think it has always made this noise and that it starts to wear the belt on it's metal edge.

Think I'm going to have to get new bolts for the lower pulleys, new covers and possibly new belt. Then get a good look at what is happening see if there is any interference that can't be seen. My last Scirocco never made this noise but was a rusty disaster.

I am loosing faith tbh as I have other annoying issues that seem to appear with all these 80's cars I have had. This is my daily car and driving around with these unknown issues constantly puts me in a bad mood. I've never had a budget to spend money on a car that has actually been looked after.

[Nate]

sounds like the belt is still too tight.
when an engine is hot it will expand so the belt will go tight.
try twisting the belt to check the tension you should comfertably be able to twist it 90 degrees. if you cant its too tight.
this will explain why when you first fired it up it was making noise untill you slackened off the belt.
only other thing it could be is if its a directional belt fitted the wrong way round.
cant remember how u would check this though

somehow i can't see an engine expanding so much that the belt gets too tight. and an overtight belt will make a howling noise, not a ticking noise. it's either going to be a pulley catching on the cover, or a bearing that doesn't run as smoothly as it might, or something else not timing belt related.

try using a long screwdriver as a stethoscope to see if you can determin a bit better exactly where the noise comes from (just be careful near spinning belts)

[MacColl]

Thanks Nate, I have tried the long screw driver technique (thankfully I have short hair) and I was hearing the noise when holding at the non-spinning part adjuster pulley. I had changed it with no solution to the noise and the older Pulley still looked really fresh.

What i have noticed is the belt sits slightly offset on the toothed sprockets on the edge which I know can be pretty normal but I suppose with expansion when hot that might influence some interference with the inner lower cover? I think there is a metal spacer ring in there somewhere?

I'll get fresh bolts for the lower Pulleys (the four and three for the alternator Pulley) and remove the lower cover and see what's happening down there internally. This was done before with grateful help from Bengould but we were in more of a hurry and TBH thought we had sorted the issue. There has even been the view that the noise isn't an issue but myself and some others think it should be quieter.