Paul's 89 Mk2 GT2

[pajsh]

My 7even kit car went yesterday so I thought I'd start a thread off for my MkII 'rocco Project.



I have owned it since 2000 when I bought it for my wife as a daily driver for £950. Two years later my son had it as his first car for a year before he bought a Mk4 GTi and we parked it up. The last 7 years it's been SORN while I have been building and driving a Locost 7 which I finally forced myself to part with in order to bring the old 'rocco out.



It's likely initial progress will be slow as I've no real knowledge of VW stuff and will have to do plenty of reading around to decide what to do. My first post in the Mk2 section got limited response so I am steadily reading through all these project threads here and on the net.

Basically, I want to make it a fun fast road/track car without going crazy either financially or technically. At VWNW a couple of weekends back I spoke to a few people and formalised a general plan as follows:

8v Engine is pretty sound but has 142k on the clock so I plan to replace it and get some extra power while I'm at it. Currently thinking 16v 2.0 on carbs with 3d ignition.
Change in engine will probably mean change in gearbox but more info still required. Probably go with existing cable box for now and change when it packs in. Probably not long!
Suspension will be stripped and refurbished. Planning replacement coilovers but nothing too low or expensive.
Brakes will be upgraded and probably discs on the back. G60's have been suggested with a bigger servo but no firm ideas on this one yet
Interior removed and new front seats and harnesses. Needs to be done well, not just left tatty. No cage.
Replacement fuel tank as the seam is knackered. Maybe replacement part or move inside. Filler is OK.
All brake & fuel lines replaced and run inside.
All redundant wiring and pipework removed.
Bodywork is generally OK and just needs the odd repair and a good cutting. Bonnet may be replaced with GRP to save weight and it's a bit shot.

First step is probably to get some short term insurance and have a garage I know give it a thorough health check and MOT to make sure there are no major issues to scupper the whole job. After that photograph everything for record purposes and get busy stripping out.

I'll be back.

[markh]

Sounds interesting bud, keep us updated and with plenty of pics !

[Cpt Custom]

Look forward to following your progress.

Nice to see another Alpine White car with the black body kit ... a great combination IMHO.

[pajsh]

OK, so we were going to start last weekend but a Race Prepared Mk2 came up on Ebay very similar to what we want to do and this very nearly scuppered the whole project. After much consideration we decided it was not for us and so we are back on with our build. To someone who wants a track day beast it's fine but as we already have a decent car to work on it's back to Plan A.

The bank holiday weekend presents a good chance to get the old girl up on some ramps and have a poke around. Stripping may begin at some level after we have taken some record pictures but we are still debating if it's worth getting it checked out first. If so insurance and an MOT together with a thrash down to the appointed garage may be the next step. Pictures and findings to follow next week.

At the same time, research is going on into engine options and we are gratefully reading all the build threads on here and Club GTi. As we have no EFi at present if we go for a more modern ABF engine we will probably be looking at Megasquirt rather than using what comes with a donor. It's more likely though that we will go for a cheaper KR option with Megajolt and bike carbs for simplicity at this stage and maybe consider MS and ABF later on.

More research still required though and a decision on this is quite some way off.

Will anyone be interested in the interior?? Drivers seat has the usual worn bolster but IIRC the rest is pretty much OK.

Seems a shame to skip it.

[pajsh]

OK Engine options so far from my reading.

1. Upgrade existing 1.8 8v (90BHP) - With head work, bike carbs & 4:1 on Megajolt - Probably easiest and cheapest but limited power gains. This engine is very similar to the Ford SOHC Pinto I put in the kit car so I would guess anything beyond 135 BHP may be optimistic without much work or assisted induction.
2. KR 1.8 16v (135 BHP) - A better starting point and could either be on carbs (twins or bike) with Megajolt, donor K-Jet or Megasquirt. 150 BHP realistic but limited further upgrade and I did want a 2.0l.
3. 6A/9A 2.0 16v (150 BHP) - A bit of a halfway house to the ABF as KE-Jet will need replacing probably with Megasquirt and will need KR cams. Plus points are engine may be cheaper and less thrashed depending on donor. Also no clearance issues.
4. ABF 2.0 16v (150 BHP) - The newest engine with either Motronic from the donor or Megasquirt. Probably the preferred option if it will fit and we can deal with a more complex fuel and electronic installation. Likely to cost the most and take the longest.

Part of my decision is influenced by wanting to keep the 8v gearbox for now to avoid complications and cost and also to limit spend to around £5k on the whole project. As such I'm assuming 150BHP is a maximum.

Things still to check are :-
Can you put carbs on a 6A/9A or ABF (for simplicity) or is it not worth it? My thinking is to get it on the road/track and then add the EFi later.
Are MOT emissions based on the engine date or the car?? - I assume it's the age of the car so none of the engines will be a problem.
Will an ABF fit in a Mk2 or not??
Engine availability. It's probably cheaper getting a donor if going EFi as a Megasquirt is £500 just for the box. For then an MOT failure could supply many other parts like brakes/gearbox too. SWMBO may not be keen on it being on the drive though. .

Any input, suggestions, comments and most importantly corrections welcome.

Still reading.

[Mr Funk]

Morning,

While I can't be an awful lot of help with the mechanical side Stripped out interiors are something I do know about. Not sure if it's what you're after but take a look and I'll happily any advice I can.

[pajsh]

Hi there Mr Funk.

It's certainly on the list and I've been looking at various cars around the shows and on line.

Do you have any pictures??

[Mr Funk]

Loads on my build thread. It's getting another overhaul in the winter but you'll get the idea.

[Tim_R]

Okay, where to start, hope this helps you rather than confuses the hell out of you! All this is my personal view and no doubt others will be along to disagree.

Yes with head work, a different cam and a different inlet and exhaust system you can get reasonable gains from a 1.8 or 2l 8v, I looked into it when i had my original 1.8 carb engine a few years ago and found for the money I'd be spending, I could buy a doner vehicle with a more powerful engine and strip it for its goodies.

1.8 KR - not a bad choice if you find one that's recently been rebuilt but the newest is going to be knocking on 20 years old now and need a refresh. It's a short block engine and will fit under the rocco bonnet with no issues at all. Supposed to be 137bhp @ 6100 rpm with peak torque of 124 ft-lb at 4600 rpm (source carfolio.com)

2L 16V 9A - Again a short block 16V engine, found in later Corrados and Passats, 1992 onwards I think. Not as rev happy as the 1.8 and produced less power out the box because tame inlet cam due to having a catalytic converter fitted. 137bhp@5800 rpm with peak torque of 133 ft-lb at 4500 rpm.
With a suitable inlet cam from a KR or ABF and some rolling road time to setup the fueling and ignition this can be hugely improved to somewhere between 150-160 bhp.

2L 16V ABF - Tall block engine, I think it's 10mm taller than the KR and 9A, but some people on here have fitted it into their roccos. Birdy and davyg come to mind. 148 bhp @6400 rpm and 129 ft-lb @5000 rpm (carfolio.com again) this can be found in mk 3 golfs and more recent Seat's like late 90s early 00's Toledo's and Ibizas, so could be easier to source a lower millage unit that hasn't had such a hard life.

Yes you can fit carbs or throttle bodies to the 16v, though you'll need to source a manifold to attach them with. If you go down this route, you'll need to fit an electric fuel pump as the original is mechanically driven on the front of the engine as well as an ignition system

You can use your 8v gearbox without issues on a 16v though you'll need to fit an 8v clutch to it as it has a smaller input shaft. I ran mine for many miles like that and have only swapped it due to diff bearing whine.

I went down the 9a route as one pretty much fell into my lap with all the ancillaries and injection system and I knew it would fit. I even used the KE-Motronic system and after fitting a KR inlet cam and having a rolling road tune it to tweak the fueling, to stop it leaning out, it produces decent results and has kept the car reliable in all weathers and capable of using regular unleaded without pinking. We got 129 bhp at the wheels, just for reference on the same day a friend's mk 2 Golf with a modified 2L 8v with head work, ansa 4 branch manifold, a fairly aggressive cam and vernier pulley got 110 bhp.

Hope this is useful for you.

Edited to say: I've done a few track days at Llandow and Colerne airfield day with it in it's current setup and it's been really good fun, plenty fast enough and surprisingly economical as well as being perfectly usable on the road

[pajsh]

Many thanks and very helpful. All adds to the picture.

I'm still not sure which way to go although I leaning towards the bike carb route for speed and simplicity in the first phase and maybe add the cost and complexity of EFi later on. I can put stuff like extra fuel return lines and provision for wiring in at the same time though to prepare for later. Having said that I may just be better taking time to do the job once and save the additional cost.

I've been looking at donors and I need to put the feelers out for an MOT failure at our local scrappy. I don't want to have to buy something that would be a shame to bin and pay a higher price for it. I think a donor is the sensible route to ensure I get all the bits and can keep the EFi stuff in store for future use but SWMBO will not be happy.

I'm happy to strip and re-build the engine so to some degree the donor that turns up may determine if I go KR/9A/6A or ABF.

Hopefully stripping the inside might start this weekend if the weather is better than last!!

[pajsh]

This is obviously going to be a long term project.

Started the engine while reluctant to go (practically no fuel and it's about 4 years old) it did run in the end. Most of this was down to the battery being a bit down and after a brief charge it started pretty quickly.

Very noisy for a bit until the tappets cleared and the oil got to them. Once it was warm it ran OK and I took one last video before it comes out and goes to engine heaven. Then put it on the ramps for a look under the back.

Took some pictures of the rear mounts and they seem to me to be in pretty reasonable shape. Brackets and bushes are shot but the car seems OK. Would be happy to hear what others think.





Filler neck is OK but the fuel tank seam is shot, but as this is coming out it doesn't really matter.





Next job will be remove the engine or the fuel tank and then start taking apart the rear of the car.

[pajsh]

Been busy stripping the engine over Christmas and now I just need to get some splines to split the drive shafts and the starter motor. Engine should then come out and as I don't need it I have a range of spares if anyone is interested. Engine is an EX 1.8 8v

Of particular note are:-

pieburg mechanical fuel pump
water pump
Twin choke Weber carb

I had to renew both pumps after I bought the car and my guess is they have done less than 10k so pretty new. The Weber carb was on it when I got it in 1999 but it's in perfect working order.

There are also various pipes, sensors etc which might be just what someone is looking for. PM me if there is anything you are interested in. Not wanting to make any big deals, just save some bits from the skip.

After that it's ebay or the bin.

[pajsh]

Saturday is project day!!

Engine now out and partially stripped leaving a big box of spares in my garage. As I''ve had no interest on here parts will be on ebay soon and then the rest will either go free to anyone who wants it or to the local "metal" man.











Front suspension is next with most of it being replaced with new. Ball bearings actually fell out of one inner CV joint when I split them so they will be replace too with bottom ball joints and TRE's. Wishbones are shot, new coil overs on the shopping list and new bushes all round. Still alot of stripping to do but having fun.

Engine decision still not made but way off and more research needed.

[pajsh]

Been very busy today taking advantage of the lovely warm weather.

Stripped the gear shift mechanism and removed the steering rack.




Removed the exhaust, which took ages


and broke the rear suspension mount bolts (good news).




Not removed the rear beam yet as I currently can't get the back wheels off as the TSW hub nuts seem to have welded themselves to the hubs. Tried the Cairo Screwdriver with plenty of fluid but no joy. Heat next then the final resort will be to split them. Rear hubs look pretty tired but the bottom nuts broke loose UK.



Rear ARB mounts look a bit solid but I'll tackle these when the beam is off.



I loosened the front suspension a few weeks ago so pretty soon it will all be off and the car will be on stands.

Now the clocks have gone forward the evenings will be perfect for dismantling and re-building both my 020 and my replacement engine. A lovely pint of home brew topping off a pretty good day.

[pajsh]

Thursday night I took the manifold of the ABF which was not easy .

This one stud did not want to come out but with a bit of care and persuasion it did.


Had to take the rocker cover off and was happy to see everything nice and tidy inside


The fake alloy wheel nuts were giving me a lot of trouble as they have fused on over time so in the end I had to cut them off


Soon all the hubs were off and so was the rear beam.



Rear mounts not in great condition but until the rust is cleaned off it's hard to be sure.


I sprayed the mounts so I could record the positions for later



With the back up on stands next up, the front suspension


Most came off OK except one bolt. Glad I bought a breaker bar.


Got the bits I need


Now I've got some cleaning to do


But new back plates required