Ignition Timing on a DX engine

[dozzum]

Hello

Managed to get my GTi running again this afternoon, at last.

But I had real problem trying to set the timing properly.

The Haynes book says the mark on the flywheel should be correct for setting the ignition timing up as 6 degrees advanced.
Which contradicts what someone once told me that you need a timing light where you can set it to advance by six degrees off the TDC mark on the flywheel.
My brothers MK2 Golf 8V GTi with Digiphant had a TDC mark and a separate mark for 6 degrees.
We found a mark on the flywheel that we though was correct and which matched up with when 1&4 were at TDC (poking a peice of wire down the plughole).
Splodged a bit of white paint on this mark, but once the car was running we couldn't see it with the timing light (standard non advancing sort) on it at all, even adjusting a fair way both ways didn't bring it into view.

Does anyone have a photo of what the timing mark should look like and can anyone confirm whether the flywheel is marked for TDC, 6 degrees or both.
Also is it possible the flywheel has been fitted the wrong way round, and if so how many possible ways round can it be fitted.

Many thanks in advance.

[Tim_R]

Sounds like you found the TDC marker and only have that on the flywheel. I don't remember my original engine ever having anything else. My aftermarket replacement LUK clutch and flywheel assembly certainly don't have any other marks.
I think you'll need to get your hands on an adjustable timing light to make your life as easy as possible. I'd offer to help but sadly I'm no longer in the area.

Tim

[dozzum]

If the mark I found was TDC then I'm confused as to why I couldnt get it to show up with the timing light I had, even if they run best at 6 degrees advanced surely I should have been able to see it and set it running at TDC???

[fonzooorooo]

If your timing light illuminates at 0 degrees, you should be able to see the TDC mark, but 6 degrees before it gets to TDC... Easy way's with a strobe that'll check advance... (Gunson advance goes up to 60 degrees - it has a dial on the back, so you can read off that the number of degrees of advance when the TDC marks line up) Ours even came in handy last week setting up a '50s BSA engine on a rotovator!

[ghost123uk]

Just a thought, don't some of them have both marks on the bottom pulley ? (our EX does)

[dozzum]

Thats something I was going to check today. Hopefully...

[dozzum]

When you say bottom pulley, I take it you mean the one under the bottom cambelt cover.
If so, then in order to time it off these you would need to remove the pulley thats in front of the cover, remove the cover then refit the pulley and belt to time it or have I missed something?

Cheers

Rich

[Tim_R]

He means the V belt pulley which links the water pump, alternator and crankshaft together. It will have a line on it marking TDC when level with an arrow on the cambelt cover. No removal of belts and covers necessary. It may also have degree timing marks on it too.

[Nate]

take out no1 plug. hold a screwdriver on the top of the piston and rotate the engine by hand (socket on the crank bolt or rock it gently in 5th) to find tdc.

take off dizzy cap. rotor arm should be pointing at a very small notch in the rim of the dizzy (not the big cutout that locates the cap) if the arm is 180° out, turn the crank 1 full revolution.

now you know it is going to be somewhere near, slacken off the dizzy clamp bokt and advance the timing but a very small amount. test drive car. repeat until engine starts to pink under load, then retard it very slightly.

[ghost123uk]

take out no1 plug. hold a screwdriver on the top of the piston and rotate the engine by hand (socket on the crank bolt or rock it gently in 5th) to find tdc.

take off dizzy cap. rotor arm should be pointing at a very small notch in the rim of the dizzy (not the big cutout that locates the cap) if the arm is 180° out, turn the crank 1 full revolution.

now you know it is going to be somewhere near, slacken off the dizzy clamp bolt and advance the timing but a very small amount. test drive car. repeat until engine starts to pink under load, then retard it very slightly.

Nate, normally I would agree with you and I have used this method on many cars, many times, however when I swapped the dizzy on my carbed GTII last November I did this "as usual" and I could not get it to pink :o

Now I don't know why it would not pink, I could get it to kick back against the starter, and even then, once running it would not pink despite my hardest attempts. You could "feel" it was too far advanced but no matter how far forwards I took it (until it would not go over comp on the starter) it would not pink :o I cannot explain it (esp as these engines do not have knock sensors).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I then tried to time it off the inspection hole but my cheap timing light was inadequate for that. I then went to a lot of trouble marking TDC on the front pulley and doing some maths to measure back on the circumference of the pulley to put a timing mark on it with white paint.

It was whilst messing around like this discovered our other GTII had manufacturers timing marks on the front pulley. I still had to clean up the pulley to find them and had to dab white paint on to see them with my timing light.

[dozzum]

Problem is the car has no MOT, and the fuel mixture is all messed up as well. We've got it somewhere near by sticking something down the plughole and playing it by ear.
I couldn't see or feel any cut outs on the pulley when I stuck my head under yesterday.
Ill jack it up and have a good look, I'm also going to buy one of those Gunson timing lights from Halfords that does the advancing, its £35 with the trade card and works off induction pick up which will make things easier.
If I still fail to find a mark that works on the pulley or through the plughole I guess I will have to take the rocker cover off to check the mark in there and mark one on somewhere.

Cheers for the help so far.

If anyone has an engine from the same year can take a photo of what the mark down the plughole that would be awesome.
Its one of the very first 1.8 Gtis.

[ghost123uk]

If anyone has an engine from the same year can take a photo of what the mark down the plughole that would be awesome.
Its one of the very first 1.8 Gtis.

I take it by "plughole" you mean that green plug stopper above the flywheel. I don't know about a photo, I cannot even see down it with my eyes and best reading glasses on ! ( I think you need to be a double jointed contortionist ! )

How do folks get that plastic bit out !!!!

[dozzum]

Yeh thats what I mean.
I used a pair of water pump pliers and all my patience.

[Tim_R]

It helps a lot if you can unscrew the green part that holds the plastic bung, a few years ago the guy who setup my engine on his rolling road did that and it made setting the timing with a light a doddle, unfortunately I missed seeing what he used to do it as they seem to corrode in place.

[mattg34]

Just a thought guys but i used a large bolt that fitted head first into the green plastic plug and filled the end off the bolt so there where two flat sides i could fit a spanner or mole grips onto. Hope this helps