Jacking up and axle stands

[MK21800]

(slightly) embarrassingly, begin a novice, I have never jacked up and supported a car on axle stands. I own a low profile jack and some ratchet stands which I bought a few years back, and are obviously in good condition, having never been used.

I've done some work underneath my Mk1 and Mk2 years back, but the car was on ramps that I borrowed from a friend, who is unfortunately no longer a friend.

I'm looking to do an oil change. Have all the kit ready to go. But I want to make doubly sure about jacking up and placing on stands in a correct and safe manner and not be one of "those guys" who does it slapdash, like so many stories I hear about (a mate of mine told me earlier that the first time he ever jacked and standed a car, it was a Land Rover and he did it on grass! fFor God's sake!).

I have a level driveway (concrete). And I understand the safety stuff - leave the jack underneath somewhere, chock the wheels, rock the car to check etc. - belt and braces.

Yesterday a mobile tyre fitter turned up and attempted to jack up my rocco by the pinch welds. He gave up, stating they were bent and would not accept his jack. I was quite grateful actually that he was professional didn't go ahead. Gonna have to have it four point lifted in the centre instead.

So I'm not happy about the pinch welds. The are all bent up, however, don't seem rusty at all.

I understand I can put my axle stands on the "Control Arm mounting point"? This is the bushing where the control arm bolts on to the body, right? The place on the control arm furthest away from the wheel? And orientate the curve of the stand around the bushing? The control arm being that kind of right angled unit that goes from the body to the wheel. Forgive me, I only really know about engines, but am trying to learn more about the underside. Everyone's gotta start somewhere, right?

Where to jack from? Should I use the lifting "donuts" that are slightly further in from the pinch welds? With a block of wood? I understand these are more for the four point lift but can be used with a trolley jack in conjunction with a spreader, such as wood.

Can I still use the pinch welds even though they are bent? I could try and post a picture if you like.

All the diagrams I see seem a little vague and I can't work out exactly where to put everything. Can someone post a really exact picture with the places I need to use?

Also, is it ok to use these techniques to jack up the whole front one corner at a time? I understand that one needs to monitor the first axle stand while one is jacking up the second corner to check for slippage. Correct?

Thanks for bearing with me, am just learning and want to make sure I do things safely.

[GT_II]

If your budget and space allows, I'd highly recommend using two trolley jacks. Lifting the car bit by bit on alternate sides reduces the risk of damage to the jacking points and makes it easier to position and lower the car onto axle stands safely. I also find with two trolley jacks there is less need for axle stands when doing quick jobs that don't involve lying under the car.

The pinch welds are not really up to lifting these older VWs, particularly to support the weight of the front end. My preferred jacking points are the "doughnuts" you mention just behind the front wheel arch, and the support brackets on the rear chassis leg behind the rear axle. I have fitted Mk1 Audi TT lifting pads at these points to make it easier to lift the car without causing damage (part nos 8N0804583 (rubber cushion) and 8N0803855 (plastic insert), both need modifying to fit into the doughnuts).

When I need axle stands, I usually place them under the lower front chassis legs, just behind the front wishbone mounts. These are ideal for my stands, which have slotted rubber blocks at the top. For conventional axle stands, I guess the wishbone rear bush mounting brackets should be strong enough, perhaps others can confirm?

If I need stands at the rear, I use the the rear beam near its pivot point to raise the car, leaving the rear chassis leg brackets free for the axle stands. The rear chassis brackets are quite high from the ground though, so quite large axle stands are needed to reach them when the car is raised. Otherwise the rear beam mounting brackets should be strong enough, perhaps others can confirm?

[WreckTangle]

I agree with the above reply. Notwithstanding where VW planned for the car to be lifted 30 years ago you need to make allowance for the fact that there may be hidden corrosion and parts that were strong originally may not be now. The running gear is the same as on a Mk1 Golf, so videos like these may help.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WtskqGuMYmA

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EbV3bcPx4js

I tend to use tough looking parts of the sub frame and spread the load using a block of 4x2. Also, once the car is lifted I tend to place additional, back-up jack stands as a precaution. If you are working underneath the car how much resilience do you think is appropriate for hardware that may kill you should it fail?

By the way, on my Mk2 GTII it is fairly easy to change the oil without raising the car. The filter can be changed from above and you just have to be able to reach the sump plug underneath.

[MK21800]

By the way, on my Mk2 GTII it is fairly easy to change the oil without raising the car. The filter can be changed from above and you just have to be able to reach the sump plug underneath.

Oh hold up. This is interesting.

I was under the impression that one had to have the sump at a slight angle in order for all the oil to drain out, if you see what I mean. Are you saying that doesn't matter, and the reason we jack it up is purely to make it more accessible? Well if this is the case, then silly old me!

So it doesn't matter if the car is on flat ground without being jacked up, the only problem is the change is far less ergonomic due to involving some stretching etc. - and it doesn't matter that the sump is lying flat?

If this is the case, well I am a gangly git! I have done a lot of things on the car which involve doing it by feel and reaching somewhat. I reckon I could do it.

If you can verify that the oil change is as effective both ways then sod it! I'll just do it on level ground.

Side note - I took my car in to have the tyres changed today. It couldn't be jacked by the pinch welds for obvious reasons (they are bent as usual), so I asked the guy to show me where he was jacking it. He chose the frame rail just behind the anti roll bar. I looked at it. Seemed to hold, no bending or anything.

He then advised me that I could put stands on the control arm, there's a nut there that holds the arm to the frame. Does this sound right?

Even if I do the oil change with the car un-jacked, it is useful for the future to know how to jack it up and support it.

And I do actually have two sets of stands. What you suggest is exactly what I was planning - use the second set of stands somewhere as a fail safe.

[GT_II]

Yes, I have never jacked the car to drain the oil - works for standard suspension ride height anyway. The drain plug is at the lowest point when the car is level, as would be the case on a vehicle lift in a workshop.

The beams behind the arb brackets are only floor reinforcements - liable to crush if used to lift the car. Mine are slightly distorted where a previous MOT tester jacked the car here. The "doughnut" mountings are stronger and the official lifting points at the front - though its best to raise both sides together to spread the load.

I am not sure whether the front or rear wishbone mounts are better for axle stands - I'm guessing both are suitable. But again, its much safer if the car is raised with two trolley jacks simultaneously so that the weight of the car is shared evenly when lowered onto the stands.

[MK21800]

Thanks for all the useful hints on this thread. Even if I can do it without jacking it up, still some very useful info on raising the car for future reference. I like the hint about the jacking it up from both sides at once.

On another note, to do with oil changes - just while we're here - has anyone tried a "topside" oil change - with the pump (electric or hand pump) and the tube down the dipstick hole? Getting mixed reports about these, but it seems like the Rocco is a good candidate for it. Some criticism seems to be about it leaving more oil in the pan, but it seems to depend on the car.

Anyone tried it?

[GT_II]

Both extraction and drain methods are listed in VW's maintenance manual for the Scirocco (covering 1986-on cars), so I guess it's down to personal preference. Personally, I like the reassurance of knowing that the sump pan has emptied, by seeing the oil drip from the drain hole at its the lowest point. In reality I guess whichever method, a fair amount of old oil is left lurking in the engine cavities.

[BlackGT]

Thanks for all the useful hints on this thread. Even if I can do it without jacking it up, still some very useful info on raising the car for future reference. I like the hint about the jacking it up from both sides at once.

On another note, to do with oil changes - just while we're here - has anyone tried a "topside" oil change - with the pump (electric or hand pump) and the tube down the dipstick hole? Getting mixed reports about these, but it seems like the Rocco is a good candidate for it. Some criticism seems to be about it leaving more oil in the pan, but it seems to depend on the car.

Anyone tried it?

I recently did an oil change from above with a pump for the first time, it was very straightforward and extracted the amount of oil I expected, so I'm confident there wasn't much remaining in the sump. Much easier, quicker and more pleasant than draining the oil using the sump plug!

[MK21800]

I recently did an oil change from above with a pump for the first time, it was very straightforward and extracted the amount of oil I expected, so I'm confident there wasn't much remaining in the sump. Much easier, quicker and more pleasant than draining the oil using the sump plug!

I at last found the time to do it recently using probably the cheapest pump I could find on ebay (about 12 quid) for an experiment - one of those yellow things you attach to the battery.

Started off really well, kind of slowed down to an almost standstill after about 2.5 litres (I was measuring it in an old water bottle.

I left it for a few minutes, reinserted it down the dipstick tube, and it got out about another litre to 1.5 litres.

With the oil from the filter, and stuff then poured out when I took the filter off, it was probably approaching about 4.5 litres, which was ok-ish. Might do it again after about 1000 miles because my motor was in desperate need of an oil change so I figure two in quick succession might dilute the old oil down.

I wonder whether I didn't have the oil hot enough? How long did you warm the car up first? I think mine was 5 minutes.

Could of course have been that the cheapo pump isn't as good as the more expensive ones. But it did seem quite enthusiastic at first.

[BlackGT]

4.5L is about what I got too... my pump is manual, in that you pump a handle a few times which creates low pressure in the cylinder and sucks the oil out. The instructions for mine are warm up for 5 minutes