Drum brake issues

[james butler]

Right
I changed my drums and shoes quite a while back with all new springs and slave cylinders.
However the rear brakes have never worked as well as before especially the handbrake.
When I first had the Rocco I could lock the rears up with the handbrake all day long but I've never been able to do it since I swapped out all the parts.
I've been through the Haynes manual and tweaked for ages.
I've even chatted at length with various members experiencing the same issues and the only commen thing we've noticed is the park position of the lever attached to the shoes that actuates the handbrake isn't quite far back enough.
If this isnt in the correct position it wouldn't generate enough leverage to give a good handbrake.
Dunno if this is a feasible reason?
This could also be connected with handbrake cables being a little too short?
I'm out of options tried and tested so if you guys have any suggestions I would be most interested.

James

[unknownmale]

Interested in a solution too, never had a good handbrake on a mk2! Only thing I can think of is scuffing the inside of the drum? We used to rub tar on the rim of our bikes when we were kids to get better brakes haha

[james butler]

Interested in a solution too, never had a good handbrake on a mk2! Only thing I can think of is scuffing the inside of the drum? We used to rub tar on the rim of our bikes when we were kids to get better brakes haha

lol yeah i remember doing things like that as a kid. especially when you fiddle with the shoe setup and it accidentally grabs the tyre and throws you over the handle bars!!!! lol
i tried scuffing the drum inside but made no difference, i did think about drilling the drums in some places with a 5mm bit which should let brake dust out and provide some wiping action on the shoes like cross drilled disks do but was worried bout them cracking under pressure.
but i really think theres something in the handbrake mechanism were all missing and if set uo wrong gives you crap handbrake.
i might just change the shoes again to a more reputable brand before anything else (any recommendations? do ebc do shoes lol)

[duggers]

James, you should try different shoes first as some aftermarket stuff can be a little out of spec.
Also new shoes will need to bed in some and the rear brakes do little work compared to the front. The self adjuster needs lots of pulls of the hand brake and pushing of the pedal to set the shoes.
DO NOT drill the drums, you'll just cause yourself problems.
What type of bias mechanism does your car have; hydraulic on the M/C or mechanical at the back axle beam?

[mark1gls]

Not had a problem with my hand brake on Mk1 Scirocco and 1988 Mk1 Golf cabriolet, the Golf should use the same set up, the hand brake will hold the car on a slight hill on 1 click and 2 clicks is a steep hill I can only just about pull the thing up to 3 clicks. When the back of the car is off the ground I can only just about wheels by hand at a struggle on 1 click. The hand brake cable is near the end of the thread and the adjustments I make is via the wedge in the brake drum.
I use pagid brake stuff as always been pleased with the amount of "bite" they have.

How did the car do on the MOT as they have the equipment to really test your hand brake?

[unknownmale]

I need a good two handed yank to get it to hold on the hill, my other car failed the MOT yesterday because of the handbrake!

[DannyH]

I had similar problems for ages and the last time the cylinders were changed it cleared up?

may have been a coincidence?

[unknownmale]

Cylinders shouldn't effect the handbrake though, unless it's leaking brake fluid.

[sabre0699]

There is only one way to successfully set up the rear drums.

Make sure that all the adjusters are free then adjust OFF the cables at the handbrake lever end ( best leave only the domed nut on ) , then firmly press on the foot brake, you will feel the adjusters take up the slack and then adjust up the lever onto four or five clicks.

The auto adjusters will never take up the slack if the cables are adjusted up , nor can you successfully adjust up the wedges

[james butler]

There is only one way to successfully set up the rear drums.

Make sure that all the adjusters are free then adjust OFF the cables at the handbrake lever end ( best leave only the domed nut on ) , then firmly press on the foot brake, you will feel the adjusters take up the slack and then adjust up the lever onto four or five clicks.

The auto adjusters will never take up the slack if the cables are adjusted up , nor can you successfully adjust up the wedges

this sounds the most logical idea.
ive faffed around with the wedges and adjuster nuts on the handbrake are on their min limit (any less the nut would fall off the cable) which was why i think they may be short although over time they have stretched.
i think i will get some pagid shoes and fit them first.
the rears are well passed bedding in stage its just theyve allways been rubbish. mot has allways passed with them being ballanced yet still crap.
the bias valve is 2 hydraulic valves under the master cylinder so harder you press the better they become.
cheers for the advice so far guys keep it comming
and point taken duggers i wont drill the drums.

[unknownmale]

This was the state of my drums last year



I then bought a new spring kit, cylinders, drums, shoes and bearings.



But notice the spring for the adjuster is much bigger, so at some point it'll have no effect, so might ether cut it or find a much smaller/ tighter spring, maybe that will help a bit

[james butler]

great pics unknownmale
now you can see what i mean about the leverage the rearmost shoe must have when the lever that makes the handbrake work is in the correct place.
mine is a little further forward (so more exposed than yours) which is making me think my handbrake cables are indeed a little too short, pulling the handbrake on a little bit all the time so when operated its not getting full mechanical leverage because its not in its true home position.
this obviously gets worse as my shoes wear.
first things first though im going to replace the shoes with some decent ones then go from there.

[james butler]

another daft question,
the correct rear cylinders for my car are the 17.5 mm ones not the 14.2 ones?
it has the hydraulic restricters under the master cylinder.

[unknownmale]

Not sure what that measurement is, Can measure mind if you like?

Doing the brakes on the other car this weekend...Going to try scuffing the drum with a scotch pad to help bed the pads in this time.