GTII 16v Conversion

[Cookie-101]

Right, I’m just about to get started on my GTII 16 valve conversion. Some people may have seen my post over on SciroccoUK. So... here's the car:



and here's the engine:



This is a 2.0 litre block (code ACE) so it’s from an Audi. It has the Audi sump on it, will I need to change this over for a transverse engine sump (from my 1.8 block?), and also will the oil pickup be in the right place?

I've just ordered a Megasquirt 2 ECU from Extra EFI (highly recommend this guy, he's very helpful).
Still need to get hold of quite a lot of bits though. The bit that I think I’m going to struggle with is the fuel system. What do I have to do to the fuel lines and how do I sort out the fuel pump? Do I need a lift pump and then a fuel pump or can I just mount a pump somewhere and hook it all up?

Do i need an ISV with this engine or can I get by without one and get a blanking plate for the manifold? Also do i need to run an oil cooler?

Sorry for all the questions, I’ve not done an engine swap before.

[millsy20]

I think with the megasqirt you will just need to get a MK3 golf fuel pump, not sure about a lift pump but if you need one just use a facet red top style pump and you shouldnt need an accumulator because the injecters are electronically controlled. You shouldnt need an ISV because the ECU will control the amount of air and fuel that goes into the engine through the injecters and a throttle position sensor on the throttle body. With the fuel lines just run an 8mm line for the flow to the engine and a 6mm one for the return it should be enough for it and you shouldnt get any fuel starvation. I dont know about the sump and the oil pump but I think you may need to change them both to run in a transverse engine. There are a lot of people who use Audi blocks on Club GTi so may be a good idea to ask on there.
Good luck with the project.

Rich

[Boumsong]

Go ghetto.

Throw that head away, don't waste money on an ECU. Get a KR head and a set of ZX9R carbs, lump it all together with the KR timing gear and get driving! Simples!

[Boumsong]

The useful reply.

A strong fuel pump will be more than sufficient without a lift pump or accumulator, mine is mounted in the scuttle and runs beautifully. Can't really help you with the sump query as I don't know what the differences are between then two.

[Brunty]

I've got an ACE in my GTX project. I used an old sump I had lying around and a pump from a KR.

Fuelling, I'd use a swirl pot fed by a standard lift pump and an uprated bosch injection pump mounted as close to the tank as possible.

Bike carbs on a car engine - no thanks!

[Cookie-101]

So can i use the sump from the 8v? Will the oil pump from the 8v work too? Trying to use as many bits from the 8v engine as possible.

[Cookie-101]

Sorry didnt make this clear, the ACE block already has an oil pump, can i just swap over the oil pickup from the 8v?

[Brunty]

Yes you can use the 8v sump and yes, you can probably use the ACE pump with the 8v pick up. Suck it and see :)

[Cookie-101]

Just popped over to GSF and picked up a few goodies ready for getting the engine all built up:



Head gasket
Head bolts
Rocker cover gasket set
Sump gasket
Oil filter
Timing Belt

Got a few parts off ebay ordered too, narrow band O2 sensor and a g60 throttle body.

Im using a G60 throttle body because i have a Scirocco 16v manifold. This means that when a golf 16v trottle body is mounted a standard golf rubber elbow joint will be faceing into the bulkhead. The g60 has a round inlet so can find somehing to fit far more easlily. Just going to block off the boost return pipe. There is probably a more logical solution to this but im pretty sure this will work.

Need to sort out fuel delivery now, as im using megasquirt what size injectors should i go for?

I will get some pictures up next week when things start happening, i've got a two week break from my masters degree over easter so its got to happen fast lol.

[MikeH]

Go ghetto.

Throw that head away, don't waste money on an ECU. Get a KR head and a set of ZX9R carbs, lump it all together with the KR timing gear and get driving! Simples!

Why would he throw the head away? The ABF/ACE head has better combustion chambers than a KR, and doesn't suffer from the exhaust valve shrouding that a KR does (due to the 28mm valve on a 27mm seat). ABF engines on Kjet consistently produce more power than those with a stock KR or early 9A head.

There's a guy on Club GTI with a stock ABF engine (ACE with a different inlet cam) in a Mk1 Golf on Megasquirt. 174 bhp and 162lbft, measured on a rolling road that's known for dishing out 'tough love' numbers. The same car was 150bhp / 135 lbft on Kjet, on the same rolling road.

Megasquirt is only as good as the guy that does the mapping though.

[Boumsong]

As with K-Jet and most fueling set-ups on older cars, they're only as good as the person setting them up.

It's just in my experience of 16vs I've always found the KR head to me more responsive and aggressive to drive with..Revs higher and pulls harder. Then again, I could of just been lucky and have good heads, no 2 are ever the same so what works for one person might not work quite as well for another.

[Cookie-101]

I've been reading around about injector sizes and am a little stumped, been looking at what similar engines from other cars use. Getting all sorts of numbers. I have read a guys thread over on club gti, he did a 2ltr 16v conversion in his mk2 golf using megasquirt and he used 330cc/m injectors. Does this sound ok or is that a bit too big? I can get a set of these off ebay for about £70.

[Boumsong]

I believe normal ABF injectors are 225cc..though that could be wrong. 330cc would work fine providing the timing was set up well enough to handle the extra juice.

[Cookie-101]

Im going to guess that 330cc is a bit high, these are used in the G60s and turboed engines. Looked in the Mega Manual on the megasquirt site and it has a table for injector sizes based on horse power. Im going to guess about 150 hp as the head has been mildly ported and polished (im being optimistic). The table recomends 231cc injectors. Im going to go for a set of 250cc injectors off ebay says there good for 220bhp, gives a bit of headroom.

[Cookie-101]

Bit of an update, been quite productive over the weekend.

First of all, got the barn cleared out and got the car in, this was Saturday gone.



Then spent Sunday removing the engine and stripping it for the parts i needed. I had to cut the brake lines in order to get the clearance for the gearbox to come out as these had been replaced by a previous owner by the looks of it and they were massively in the way.
Didn't have an engine hoist so had to improvise ...



Using the sump and the oil pickup off the 8v, here's a pic to show the difference between the ACE pickup (bottom) and the 8v pickup (top):



The ACE oil pickup was too long for the sump from the 8v and was touching the bottom.

I've now got the clutch and gearbox fitted to the ACE, ran out of light for pictures so will take some tomorrow.