MkI Storm v Alfasud Sprint

Discussion relating to the Scirocco 1974-1981 - please ask technical questions in the technical/trouble shooting section
trofeo
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:16 pm
fill in the right answer: 15

MkI Storm v Alfasud Sprint

Post by trofeo »

Hello everyone - I am a newbie (and you might think a bit of an interloper to boot!) . This is my first post and, hopefully, all wil soon become clear.

I own a 1982 Alfasud Sprint Veloce, Trofeo Limited Edition No.094 and was recently invited to attend a photoshoot for Classic & Sportscar magazine together with a 1981 Scirocco Storm. The latter is an example owned by VW UK and, I'm sure will already be familiar to many of you. It is the same car featured in a Pistonheads article comparing with the new R and, I believe, was used in the UK launch of the new Scirocco too.

The common ground is obviously Georgetto Giugiaro and it is obviously an interesting comparison.

Having completed the shoot last Wednesday during a monsoon in Northampton, I have become fascinated by the relative merits and, judging by the reaction on Alfa forums, so are lots of others.

Clearly, I know a great deal about Sprints but am finding detailed information about the Storm hard to come by, The websites are informative but I thought this was a way in to tap some expert knowledge and maybe elicit a bit of interest from 'the other side' so to speak.

As a starter, I have seen one reference which gives the kerb weight of the MkI Storm as 800 kgs. This seems remarkably low - is it correct? By comparison the Sprint Veloce is 91.5 Kgs. and I am surprised at the difference.

For your interest, here is a copy of my posting on the Alfa site

At the invitation of 'Classic & Sportscar' magazine, my Trofeo and I braved arctic blizzard conditions on the M1 southbound to take part in a photoshoot in Northampton. Just two cars involved, a 1981 Limited Edition MkI Scirocco and my 1982 Sprint Veloce'Trofeo' . The common ground obviously Giorgetto Giugiaro and the objective a 'compare and contrast' article for the July edition.

Now, I am no stranger to magazine photoshoots - but never before on the top decks of a city centre multistorey car park in pi##ing rain! Interesting to say the least

The photographer was Tony Baker, who I have worked with before, specifically for the 'Sud Species' article by Mark Hughes in the same magazine in Feb. 1999 (Jonathan Trinder and George Cole will remember that foggy November day at Curborough too!). The free lance journalist this time is Simon Charlesworth, who was good company during the day and soon mastered the Sud driving techniques once we left the restrictions of the car park.

From his comments I suspect that he enjoyed the Sud more than the Scirocco - but that might just be my wishful thinking!

On paper at least, the Scirocco trumps the Sud on power from it's VW Gti derived injected 1.6 shoc motor (110bhp v 95bhp) with a 5mph gain in top speed and 1.4 secs. in the 0-60 sprint. However, in the handling, driveability and braking stakes I think it might be a very different story

It will be interesting to see the final article - doubtless with some surprises, there always are!

What do you think the findings will be??


Image


Old Mac Rocco
Posts: 737
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:23 pm
fill in the right answer: 10
Location: West of Glasgow

Re: MkI Storm v Alfasud Sprint

Post by Old Mac Rocco »

Hi and welcome.
The visual comparisons between the two cars is amazing and I never noticed this before.
There are MANY leads on here with all the technical data available and I'm sure you won't have to wait long be told where to look.
Hope you find what you are looking for.
:bye:


A heart broken GLI - R.I.P. A loveable GT. A practical Polo now deceased.
mr.brown
Posts: 1489
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:13 pm
fill in the right answer: 15
Location: Surrey

Re: MkI Storm v Alfasud Sprint

Post by mr.brown »

trofeo wrote: The common ground is obviously Georgetto Giugiaro and....rust
Fixed for you :hugegrin:

I was actually into Alfas before VWs - maybe it was a hankering for the Sprint that subconsciously drove me towards the mk1. I love your car btw - although I have to say I always wanted the plastic fantastic Veloce :blush:


the edmundator
Posts: 2928
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:34 pm
fill in the right answer: 10
Location: BEDFORD
Contact:

Re: MkI Storm v Alfasud Sprint

Post by the edmundator »

Hello and welcome.

I'm a bit confused by what you say about the weight; I'm confident you don't mean that an Alfa weighs only 91.5kg, although [insert traditional rust joke here]. Do you mean that the Sud is 891.5kg, or something else?

Our FAQ section on the main website is a good place to look for technical info, and you will find many brochures and handbooks online at driversfound.com.


P.S. the mk1 Scirocco has its fair share of rust problems.


Register Member 829
--
1980 (1976) Mk1 Junior Cup Replica
1987 MK2 GTX
trofeo
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:16 pm
fill in the right answer: 15

Re: MkI Storm v Alfasud Sprint

Post by trofeo »

Sorry, the Sprint kerb weight is obviously 915 Kg not 91.5 !! I realised afterwards but could not see a way of editing the post.
I was at an AROC club East Midlands meet last night and several people seemed to think that 800 kg for the Storm seems a bit too low.
Doubtless all will be revealed in good time!


User avatar
MRMENDER
Posts: 722
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:55 am
fill in the right answer: 10
Location: Bangor N Wales

Re: MkI Storm v Alfasud Sprint

Post by MRMENDER »

800KG is not far off for a MK1 poss nearer 850KG


the edmundator
Posts: 2928
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:34 pm
fill in the right answer: 10
Location: BEDFORD
Contact:

Re: MkI Storm v Alfasud Sprint

Post by the edmundator »

The UK 1980 Storm brochure lists the kerb weight as 800kg.

Find it here:

http://driversfound.com/scirocco/history/uk/

Mk.2 early non-bodykit GTI is listed as 895kg.


Register Member 829
--
1980 (1976) Mk1 Junior Cup Replica
1987 MK2 GTX
trofeo
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:16 pm
fill in the right answer: 15

Re: MkI Storm v Alfasud Sprint

Post by trofeo »

Yes, I found the brochure at the same website thanks to an earlier posting.

So I suppose 800 kgs it is! I find it difficult to see what the 115kgs difference is due to. Same width, similar construction and equipment - maybe just the few inches in length (more legroom in the rear seats in the Sprint!).


User avatar
Dr. Dub
Posts: 312
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:28 pm
fill in the right answer: 15
Location: LV426

Re: MkI Storm v Alfasud Sprint

Post by Dr. Dub »

That is one beautiful Sprint. I've said it before on this forum, whilst risking my life, that in my eyes the Sprint is a better looking car than a Rocco.

Here's a pic from some years ago. I was was out with my mate in his Mk1 GLS when we spotted this Sprint parked up at Hardwick ponds. Well, it would have been rude not to get a pic.

Image

Also, checkout this 1978 Rocco v Sprint road test from Car magazine.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/triggersca ... 690719711/


Currently without a car (long story)
Previous rides. 2x 89 Scirocco GTs & 84 Storm
MikeH
Posts: 782
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:39 am
fill in the right answer: 10
Location: Nr Banbury, UK

Re: MkI Storm v Alfasud Sprint

Post by MikeH »

Having owned a couple of Suds in the distant past, and maybe on the lookout for another sud or sprint, I'd not be surprised if they weigh more than a MK1 Rocco, but with the low lying flat four engine, and the bulkhead brace right across the middle of the engine bay, I remember them as being a more planted car on the road - they certainly feel like they've got a lot more grip than an A1 Chassis car. It would be interesting to hustle one of each round a twisty track and compare times.

Of course, the twin carb Alfa will always beat the Scirocco in terms of induction roar, if not fuel economy ;)

Nice shots. Your car looks like a great example.


1992 Scala ABF - SOLD
1989 Scala track toy. Dormant
1986 GTX - Lunar mileage but still a good un
Mk1 Classic Touring Car Project...slowly does it
1984 1.6 GT Project. 69k In progress
1.6GL. 2 Owners, 60k. SOLD
1.6 GL - 100k miles -Back on the road!
User avatar
81GTi
Posts: 422
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:07 pm
fill in the right answer: 10
Location: Westmorland

Re: MkI Storm v Alfasud Sprint

Post by 81GTi »

OUT!!! LOL. come round here with your Alfa.... :hugegrin: :hugegrin: :hugegrin: :hugegrin: :hugegrin: :hugegrin: j/k. welcome buddy your car looks ace, being a mk1 fan since forever I have always had an eye for lots of Alfa's, there's a lot of Giugiaro's cars with similar styling,Mr Browns fix is about right though, I always had the impression Alfas had a worse rust problem than us and thats saying something.

of course for the anally retentive like myself, I have to state that the GLs/GLi and GTi were all lighter than the storm, I have a full leather storm interior and I have a full GTi interior and the difference in weight is massive! the GLi and GTi both having the exact same powerplant as the storm making them faster but not as comfy... lol :bye:

....as for handling, i'm guessing they a both very very good. :pilot:


Nate
Posts: 4045
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:37 pm
fill in the right answer: 10
Location: Cirencester / Swindon

Re: MkI Storm v Alfasud Sprint

Post by Nate »

mmm, alfa


Image

Check out my photostream on Flickr
'69 bay, '79 bay, '74 bug, '78 GLS, '91 GT2, '10 SAAB 9-3
MikeH
Posts: 782
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:39 am
fill in the right answer: 10
Location: Nr Banbury, UK

Re: MkI Storm v Alfasud Sprint

Post by MikeH »

I just bought this on ebay... hope it's not a total lemon! It's an '84 Alfasud prepped as a classic-ish rally car.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1984-ALFA-ROM ... 584wt_1358


1992 Scala ABF - SOLD
1989 Scala track toy. Dormant
1986 GTX - Lunar mileage but still a good un
Mk1 Classic Touring Car Project...slowly does it
1984 1.6 GT Project. 69k In progress
1.6GL. 2 Owners, 60k. SOLD
1.6 GL - 100k miles -Back on the road!
trofeo
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:16 pm
fill in the right answer: 15

Re: MkI Storm v Alfasud Sprint

Post by trofeo »

Thanks for all the very interesting replies - and for the welcome!

The 1978 article makes fascinating reading - once you zoom in and manage to focus! It is thorough and well written I thought. I kept having to remind myself that the 1978 Sprint 1.5 was the single twin choke Weber version developing 85bhp, whereas mine is the later Veloce twin double choke unit developing 95bhp. The difference in the 1978 GLS (84bhp on carb) and the 1981 Storm is, I understand much greater, with an increase in capacity and with Bosch injection.

I can't wait to see the finished article and photos, although I must admit I have been given a first draft to check one or two facts on the Trofeo spec. However, it was on the strict understanding that I keep it to myself! So mum's the word!


trofeo
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:16 pm
fill in the right answer: 15

Re: MkI Storm v Alfasud Sprint

Post by trofeo »

By the way, Mikett, the e bay rally 'Sud looks a cracker!!


Post Reply