Front brakes binding

Suspension; Gearbox, Clutch and Driveshafts; Brakes; Steering; Throttle and clutch cable issues
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Nate
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Re: Front brakes binding - finally overheated big time

Post by Nate »

marcus wrote: What else is likely to have been damaged by the excess heat?
caliper seals, wheel bearings, tyres, brake fluid. if they were binding at the back and getting that hot too then you'll also be looking at a pair of wheel cylinders, wheel bearings etc

being realistic, you are quite likely to just need a fluid change and fix the original problem.


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marcus
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Re: Front brakes binding - think I know what's wrong...

Post by marcus »

...and it's me! I haven't put this theory to the test yet as I've only just worked it out and it's p***ing down outside, but apologies to all those who've made many useful suggestions while I've probably been barking up the wrong tree the whole time.

Had been thinking about my problem a lot and re-reading something that ChrisPears said...
I had the same sort of problem but it was because the linkage between the pedal to the bar crossing the engine bay was badly adjusted...4mm out of spec
...led me to do some further research, as I wasn't confident I fully understood how the master cylinder works and it turns out that lack of confidence was justified!

The following article explains very clearly how master cylinders work and what can go wrong with them:

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mastercy ... works.html

Specifically:
The intake/return ports are less than a millimeter in diameter, and the seal lips sit immediately behind them, so it doesn't take much of a misadjustment to close off the ports, even partially.

Too little clearance here may cause the brakes to lock on slowly as you drive.
And thus the light dawned! When I changed my rear drums and cylinders some weeks before the discs, I followed Brunty's invaluable advice at:

http://www.sciroccouk.co.uk/forum/viewt ... f=12&t=449

Having rather too much slack at the pedal and reading...
The braking cross linkage under the bonnet. The pull rod has threaded ends, one of which is a reverse thread. It has a 13mm locking nut at either end. Slacken both locking nuts, you will probably need to lock the rod with locking pliers to stop it from spinning. As this rod pulls, to reduce the action it needs to be shortened. Screw it in until the rod cannot be pushed by hand and tighten the lock nuts.
...I gave it a go but suspect I overdid it, even though I only turned the rod by hand (well, fingertips actually) and have taken up too much slack, resulting in the pushrod in the master cylinder being partly actuated even at rest, leading to partially blocked ports, in turn leading to the symptons described in the 'how it works' link:
When you brake, the fluid heats up, both from the act of compression, and from heat generated by the friction surfaces. This causes the fluid to expand, so the volume of fluid after braking is larger than it was before braking. The excess volume is vented through the intake/return ports when they reopen, allowing the wheel pistons to move back home and release pressure on the discs/drums.

If the pushrod is misadjusted too tightly, and never allows the seals to move rearwards enough to uncover the return ports properly, your brakes will slowly lock on more each time you brake, eventually bringing the car to a stop. Allowing the fluid to cool (and thus contract) will release the brakes, so you can continue to drive until they lock up again.
I'm hoping it's going to stop raining soon, I'm itching to get out there and put my theory to the test, though I'm not sure quite what the 'correct' adjustment is, since the clearance is not specified in Haynes either at the m/c or the pedal.


1985 GTL 1.8

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Nate
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Re: Front brakes binding

Post by Nate »

you won't get that wet, the bonnet will shelter you. just get out there!


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marcus
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Re: Front brakes binding - it was the pedal height...

Post by marcus »

...though lengthening the pullrod would have had the same effect.

I had wondered why the brake pedal at rest sat lower (ie more depressed) than the clutch pedal and operating it with my fingers I could feel there was no free play before the pushrod contacted the piston in the master cylinder.

My previous adjustment to the pullrod had removed all the free play (and probably pushed the m/c in by up to 1mm) and with the pedal height set too low, there was nowhere for the reverse movement of the piston to go when the brakes were hot.

I slackened the brake pedal stop bolt on the pedal bracket until the pedal height looked about right and I could feel definite free play in the pedal before the pushrod contacted the piston and left it at that to test. A few mile of test driving showed no evidence of binding, and the discs were never more than warm to the touch after parking up.

The net result is that my brakes are no longer binding, but I now have rather too much pedal travel for my liking. This may be because I now have too much free play, probably about 10mm at the pedal, but equally I may need to re-readust the rear brake wedges.

Then again, there's an outside possiblity that the wheel cylinders I fitted a couple of months ago were the wrong size - the ones GSF sold me were 17mm I think, maybe I should have had 14mm.

Either way it doesn't really matter, with the pedal fully depressed it's still reassuringly far away from the bulkhead.


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