The Mk1 undervalued?

[tobyio]

Their seem so few mk1 sciroccos that come up for sale let alone any really good ones, to me prices are massively undervalued when considering how rare they are.

Assuming demand drives price, why is their little demand for these beauts considering their rarity?

Sometimes I think non VW people in general are unaware of the mk1 or associate it in their mind as a MK2 scirocco, when you say " Ive a mk1 scirocco non vw people think of the MK2 scirocco - i guess because the scirocco stopped production for a period it doesnt help.
When you say mk1 golf everyone can picture a mk1 golf, you cant really mistake a mk1 golf & mk2 but I think people do mistake mk1 sciroccos as mk2's??

just rambling but would love to here some other peoples thoughts

[tobyio]

For instance that storm on ebay for 12k, If it was truly original and very very low mileage and immaculate one owner etc etc then why not 12k?

Im not sure it is relevant to compare, but a mk1 golf gti, truly original and very very low mileage and immaculate one owner etc etc would be up for around the 12k mark and we all know their are 40 x mk1 golfs on the road compared to Mk1 scirocco

[the edmundator]

The Scirocco was always a niche car with a limited appeal. I think that it mainly suffers in comparison to the Golf; the mk1 Golf is the car that everyone thinks of as the proper classic, because it was important in creating the concept of the hot-hatch. The cult status of the mk1 Golf GTI is why good ones make easily double what you will pay for a mk1 Scirocco in the same condition - arguably despite the Scirocco being a better driver's car. The mk1 Scirocco has the potential for values to eventually start creeping up, hopefully to at least match Golfs of similar age and condition.

As for rarity, that in itself does not confer value. All kinds of (essentially) rubbish old cars are now very rare, but they weren't particularly good when they were new and now only have curiosity value.

If you take the Citroen 2CV as an example, that is a proper cult classic that has a mass appeal - sometimes it is hard to define exactly why a particular car is popular and another not, but it usually is because the car is associated strongly with a certain lifestyle or positive memory of a period of time. When I raced a 2CV at the start of this millenium, they were still plentiful and there were plenty of late 80s examples still on the road that you could pick up for a couple of hundred quid (a non-runner easily for £50). Nowadays you'll pay several hundred for a full-on restoration project - it needed time for numbers to reduce to make them more valuable, but they are a proper collectors' classic (like the Mini or the Beetle) and so values did rise eventually.

Unfortunately the Scirocco (mk1 or mk2) never had a significant place in the public imagination, the Golf took the limelight. Even once the numbers have reduced enough (we've probably reached that with mk1s, but there are still plenty of decent mk2s around), I doubt that Scirocco values will be as strong as the 12k being asked for that mk2 Storm. You have to think about what cars from the same era you can also buy for that money, and why you would want to buy a Scirocco instead. There needs to be a collectors' market, as well as an enthusiasts' one, for values to really take off - I'm not sure I see the Scirocco as much of a collectors' car, unlike the Golf.

[Tempest]

Interesting reply from Edmundator, stating in essence that ¨commoners cars¨ (Mini, 2CV, Golf et al), i.e. cars for the masses, have better potential to become a high-value classic than niche products, with the exception of exotic car brands like Ferrari etc.

Sad bu true. But hey, I personally don´t care, as long as I love my Rocco, which I do, I don´t intend to sell anyway

Tempest

[tobyio]

Great post & great points about the golf Edmunator.

Does anyone know the actual sales figures of Mk1 Scirocco's? Or what were they compared to the golf?

I think rarity is important but then the car needs to be defined as you say with the golf being the "hot hatch" The 2cv is a great example, the masses can associate with a 2cv, everyone remembers 2 cv's so as they become rare the price goes up.

IMO I dont think the masses can associate with the mk1 scirocco, but they can associate with the Mk2 scirocco which aren't rare which will kees prices of both low.

I even think some of the "vw scene" wont know the difference between the mk1 and mk2 scirocco or even know there is a mk1 & mk2 scirocco, to some of the VW scene it is just a "scirocco" and to the masses i would say the majority wont know the difference between the mk1 and mk2 scirocco or even know there is a mk1 & mk2 scirocco.

Were many more mk2's sold than mk1's?

[tobyio]

Sad bu true. But hey, I personally don´t care, as long as I love my Rocco, which I do, I don´t intend to sell anyway

Tempest

+1

[ianaudia4]

I think you will find there were more MK1's produced than MK2's.

[mr.brown]

Were many more mk2's sold than mk1's?

According to DriversFound.com 504,000 mk1s were made and 340,000 mk2s.

According to Wikipedia, all versions of mk1 Golf (inc Cab & CitiGolf) totalled 6.8 million units. Small wonder then that the mk1 Golf has more of an imprint on the collective psyche.

[Bonusrocco]

Values tend to dip and peak much like any other market. For instance the price of a decent mk2 golf has shot up in the last two years or so, theres one for sale near me, 146k on the clock, nothing particualrly special about it - £5k!

It is baffling why there are now more mk2's around though. I just dont think theres enough mk1's around to command any type of 'value'. The effort it takes to care for a mk1 makes it a costly interest, not an asset.

[the edmundator]

I suspect those production figures from Drivers Found are total production. I wouldn't be surprised if the mk2 sold in greater numbers in the UK than the mk1.

Either way, the superior rust protection on mk2s is the main reason more of them have survived than mk1s.

If the Scirocco had a motorsport heritage, that might have helped to make it more popular too.

[tobyio]

That's some really interesting figures, explains a lot, cheers guys

Dare I say it but IMO the Mk2 has been the downfall of the Mk1, it tarnished the scirocco name, its styling wasn't anywhere near as good as the Mk1. IMO the Mk1 is massively underrated now because of the impression the MK2 has left on the Scirocco name.

[mr.brown]

I wouldn't be surprised if the mk2 sold in greater numbers in the UK than the mk1

I suspect you are right. From what I recall the mk1 was initially very expensive compared to domestic cars - and the "mass market compact sport coupe" probably a very niche market at the time.

If the Scirocco had a motorsport heritage, that might have helped to make it more popular too.

It appears that in the USA at least, the mk1 had exactly that hence it's tremendous popularity here at the time.

Dare I say it but IMO the Mk2 has been the downfall of the Mk1, it tarnished the scirocco name, its styling wasn't anywhere near as good as the Mk1. IMO the Mk1 is massively underrated now because of the impression the MK2 has left on the Scirocco name.

I agree with you on the styling part but, if you forget about the mk1, the mk2 is still a damn good looking car. In fact, and here's where I disagree with your other statements, I'm a firm believer that the mk2 has been the saviour of the mk1. For me, and for others on here, the path to mk1 ownership started with a mk2 (or several mk2s ). Basically, If it wasn't for the mk2 I would have never found about the mk1.

[DT1]

Dare I say it but IMO the Mk2...tarnished the scirocco name, its styling wasn't anywhere near as good as the Mk1.

That is of course your opinion, personally I think you are talking bollocks, but then that's my opinion.

[Tempest]

If the Scirocco had a motorsport heritage, that might have helped to make it more popular too.

It appears that in the USA at least, the mk1 had exactly that hence it's tremendous popularity here at the time.

And in Germany, as the pics of the Scirocco Cup mid 70s in Dr. Dub's aka Richie's excellent thread demonstrate, something VW are trying to recreate with the current Scirocco R Cup.

Basically, If it wasn't for the mk2 I would have never found about the mk1.

Excatly the opposite with me, living in Germany at a time when some very tasty modded Mk1s used to cruise around the streets

Tempest

[tobyio]

Its a good point some mk1 owners would have had a mk2 first, im 33 and for me I do not ever remember the Mk1 growing up but I do remember the Mk2.

To be honest I only discovered the Mk1 scirocco when learning all about the Mk1 golf, I didnt really know of it I always associated scirocco's with the Mk2.

The best thing about people who are passionate about cars is that we all have different opinions on them and thats a good thing, Im sure there are plenty of people who dont find the mk1 scirocco their cup of tea, im not one of them