Brakes overhaul - braided hoses?

[Beddo88]

Hi all,

So I'm going to be home next weekend, and taking the full opportunity of a parking space to strip and overhaul the brakes on the Rocco.

The aims:

Replace all rear springs / adjusters on rear drums
Replace rear slave cylinders (2 new items to go in)
Upgrade to braided hoses
Check/replace of bushes on brake pivots
Full bleed of system

So, my main question is - Braided hoses, how easy are they to do on a Rocco? I've heard a variety of mixed feedback on the rears.. Something to do with taking the beam off making it EASIER?!

Can anyone clarify this? Or point me in the direction of a helpful thread if there is one! :)

I'm going to try and document this as I go, so might be able to offer help to others in future!

Cheers,
Dan

[james butler]

yeah the rear flexis are a pain as you definately cannot get to the ferrules without some funky special tool and the like, easy was round is drop the beam axle by an inch or two which gives much better access with normal tools.
one more thing fit the front flexis in the caliper first then to the pipe or it will look twisted and rub on the tyre, (not that i did that or anything )

[Nate]

they're not special tools, they're the right tools! if you pay yourself the minimum wage for dropping the beam, it's cheaper to buy the right tool for the job ;) what you need is a crow foot spanner like this


don't get one like this:



as you will be much more likely to round off the nuts. bear in mind that you'll also need another spanner to hold the pipe still while you undo the union. can't remember off hand if you can get on it with a normal spanner, i think you can. you should however use a split ring spanner (aka pipe spanner) like these


as an open ended spanner will be more likely to round off the nut

while you're on it, carefully inspect all of the solid brake lines. if they are starting to corrode, it would be an idea to replace them at the same time, rather than have to pull it all apart again a few months down the line. have a good look at the unions you're going to disturb. if the nuts are rusted, there is a chance they will twist the steel pipe when you undo them. if this happens, the pipe must be replaced. you can lessen the chances by giving them a wire bush off and a good soaking with a good release lube (plusgas is my personal preference, works much better than wd40)

seeing as you're taking the drums off anyway, check the wheel cylinders are in good shape. carefully peel back the rubbers and look for any sign of fluid. if there is any, they should be replaced as a pair. if the rocco is your only transport, you local factors will probably do them sale or return, which may save some stress.

in my experience with "stainless" braided hoses, the braiding doesn't rust, but the ferrules do. once fitted, bled and checked for leaks, put a tiny thin smear of grease on them to keep then rust free. my first set failed the MoT for coroded ferrules after only 2 years

[Beddo88]

Thanks Nate, thats really helpful! So.. not brute force and ignorance? Could be interesting...

Any idea which size crows foot I'd be needing? Don't want to go to all that effort and buy the wrong ones! :S

Ironically, I already have a pair of slave cylinders to fit which I think I bought from yourself sometime last year. They'll be going on anyway as I know one of the rear cylinders is weeping, and it annoys me.

Finally, on a side note have you noticed that the ring spanners are all the same size but with different labels?!

[Tim_R]

You might also want to think about getting new bolts to hold the slave cylinders to the back plates, in my experience the allen headed bolts either round or sheer off if they are the originals. I bought new ones from the dealers last time around for not very much and it made life so much easier.

[Nate]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110836970796

that should cover it. flare nuts are normally either 10 or 11mm and i think it's either 13 or 14mm for the ends of the flexis, but i could be wrong, it's been a few years since i did any. the stuff i normally do brakes on it a bit biggerer...

[Beddo88]

Couldn't check that link from work, had to check it at home. I did accidentally buy a set of those though... whilst browsing Amazon for birthday presents for family. Well... if you're already buying presents... :D

[Beddo88]

It's an 11mm socket you need... Handily the set I bought has a 10mm and a 12mm. So no help to me at all!! :(

Today hasn't been good. I started with draining the system, which went well. Then I checked the size of the tools... and found mine wouldnt fit. Thought I'd move onto replacing the slave cylinder, so stripped the shoes/springs etc from the drum. Finally got the brake line undone on the back of the cylinder, and found that the capheads that bolt through the back plate are completely seized. NOT HAPPY!! Shall be drilling out the bolts tomorrow morning.

Oh.. and to top it all off, the bearing has been wearing badly on the axle, so there is now an obvious line gouged around the stub axle. It sucks!!

Rant over...

[mark1gls]

I don't think it matters that there is a line on your stub axle, as long as its not to bad, the bearing runs on the face fitted to the brake drum, with a photo we could tell more.

[Beddo88]

Right, so to conclude... I now have what are basically pretty good brakes.

Replaced all braided lines (Some of the nuts were quite tight, but came undone OK - I used a 14mm spanner to hold the flexi hose in the same place which stops the danger of twisting the hardline)
Replaced both slave cylinders (One was seeping slowly, the other side had half of it completely siezed up)
Full bleed of system (with rather sketchy brake fluid coming out I'll admit!)

After all of this, the brakes really were a dam sight better. Going for a proper drive round the lakes at the weekend, so will give them a cheeky test once I've got a bit of room to stretch the legs. Didn't much fancy it with a boot full of tools/wheels/clothes etc and on the way home at 1am!

Next step will be to replace all of the bushes in the brake pivots (I assume there are bushes?!) to tighten that up and get rid of some of the play.

Watch this space... I took photos of most of the process, so will be putting together a 'How-To' shortly. :)

[Nate]

how many clocks you got on the handlebrake? to reduce handbrake travel and rear servicebrake travel, get a mate to help you. rotate the drum so you can see the bottom of the adjuster wedge thru a wheel bolt hole. get your mate to stand on the brakes hard while you push the wedge down using a poky thing thru the hole. repeat for other side. this will take up any free travel of the shoes (the adjusters rarely get rid of all of it automatically) and should get your handbrake down to 2 clicks and a much more positive feeling pedal

[Beddo88]

Thats a great idea! i'll give it a shot this afternoon and see how it turns out!

[Nate]

obviously i meant how many click on your handbrake. clocks on your handbrake would just be silly

[Beddo88]

Also, not entirely sure what a handlebrake would consist of? ;)

Did the test this afternoon, made an impressive difference I have to say. Much more positive feel out of the brakes now, and I've got a sum total of 1 click on the handbrake!! Which I think is a fail on an MOT? Unfortunately, the adjusters are fully undone, but I'm going to let it all settle and see if I get a bit more travel in it.

Cheers the help all! Nate, as usual you're a star!

[mark1gls]

As long as the brakes arent binding there should not be a problem with the MOT, I try to set mine up with one click.