Rebuild or replace engine...?

[christhemann]

Hi all,

Looks like the Helios Scala's engine is still not right, see my previous post about problems with low oil pressure.
Basically, I ended up having the oil pump replaced which seemed to cure the oil pressure problem (blocked oil pump pickup and very worn pump).
Car has been fine since with no issues for about 2-3 weeks of use, but this morning when trying to start the oil pressure light stayed on at idle and oil pres gauge reads zero!! Arr.

So, anyone able to advise if its worth getting the bearings replaced if this is the issue, and a rebuild of the bottom end.
I assume that would be crank reground, main and con rod bearings replaced...
Or is it opening a can of worms, and should I be looking for an EX 1.8 engine the same to swap. Then I suppose I could keep my weber carb and other bits and pieces...

Any advice much appreciated, really hoped I'd got this sorted.

Chris

[GT Matt]

Hi Chris

Very sorry to hear about this. It's a tough choice what to do but a loss of oil pressure would also mean additional wear to the camshaft (lobes & bearings), cylinder walls/pistons amongst other things and may not be as simple as just fixing the crank etc.

How many miles are on your current engine?

Matt

[steve]

To be fair, 1.8 carb engines are that easy to find cheap, by the time you've bought a headgasket set, you might as well have bought an engine.

[christhemann]

Cheers for that.

My engines got 94k miles on it, and until this problem occured it ran like a dream.
Its had regular services, new weber carb, cambelt+tensioner, water pump, radiator, alternator, oil pump, rocker cover + gasket, sump.
Bit hesitant to pick up another "used" engine that could have the same problems, no knowing I suppose.
Just get the feeling that if I could get the bearings done on mine, and know the engine is in good condition it would last long into the future.
But is this going to cost the earth?

I thought people mentioned these engines could usually go up to 100k plus without any major problems and the bottom end was "bullet proof"?

[steve]

So I'm told, the thing is, VW's of this era didn't have great oil pumps.

On rereading your post though, did you get a garage to do the oil pump change? Have you got recourse with them if something's gone wrong with that?

[the edmundator]

Car has been fine since with no issues for about 2-3 weeks of use, but this morning when trying to start the oil pressure light stayed on at idle and oil pres gauge reads zero!! Arr.

Are you certain that the gauges are giving you reliable readings? Does the engine see to be running fine and is there enough oil in the engine?

I'd investigate all the easier/cheaper options before thinking about potentially expensive and time-consuming things like engine replacements or rebuilds.

If in doubt, a decent garage ought to be able to tell you what the problem actually is and then you can take it from there.

[christhemann]

Sorry Ed probably best see previous post:
http://www.sciroccoregisterforum.co.uk/ ... f=9&t=7810

All sensors have been checked / replaced.

Today the local VW guy who fitted the oil pump came over, I took the sump off and inside were lots of metal shavings.
His first response was the bearings are shot, but after removing the brand new oil pump we found it was in the same knackered state as the old one!
Gears were scored and it would barely turn at all.
He took a main bearing cap off to inspect and said the bearings look ok with no noticeable scoring to the crank, also crankshaft endplay was within spec.

He is totally puzzled....
Wondering if maybe there was still bits of metal in the oil filter housing from the old oil pump still remaining that over 3 weeks of running perfectly with the new oil pump, gradually worked their way back in and destroyed it seizing it up.

I've just bought new oil filter from the dealers and getting some new oil, but am hesitant to put a new oil pump on and have same happen again, wasting another. The oil pump was a Febi part and seemed fine, only thing the garage noticed was it was pretty noisy on first startup with new pump, even though he poured some oil into it and turned over engine without coil for quite a while first.

Any ideas?

[bensspares]

its highly unlikley to be the engine,much more likley to be a blocked oil pump pickup or the oil pump itself, it may have worked loose from the block....most engines will go for over 250,000 without any oil related problems.

[ianaudia4]

Take the oil pump back to where you bought it and ask for a replacement/money back.

[christhemann]

Thanks.

Wasn't able to get hold of the guy I bought it from for a replacement, but managed to get a replacement from GSF today.
Incedentally this is a Topran model oil pump, the one I got before was Febi and was missing the plastic baffle to clip on (my one broke before).

So tomorrow I will attempt to take the oil filter housing off and see if theres any crud and metal shavings in there, but otherwise I'm stumped.
Still not sure I should put the new pump on without finding the cause.

Anyone else had a Febi pump fail? Should I have done anything special to prime it the first time it was started, and should you then change the oil again immediately after fitting a new oil pump?

Not sure if there should ever be bits of metal filings at all, especially as these oil pumps should be so well tested from factory.
They're like a Pace Maker in someones heart, if they fail the engines pretty stuffed!

[bensspares]

without apearing to be out of date but,can you not buy a genuine pump from vw ??????...before you fit a new pump,prime it before you fit it.when reasembld,imobalise the ignition and turn engine on the key till the oil light goes out. if the retaining bolts are not to the correct torque then its possible its worked loose and the oil isnt being circulated correctly.if there was main or big end wear you would hear a heavy nocking from the mains and a clatter from the big ends (run engine and with handbrake firmly applied engage second gear and bring clutch to the bite and listen for noise)..dont worry about the cam as you can drive it for several miles before any damage will occour.when engine is running remove oil filler cap and you should be able to see oil splattering round inside the camcover around the black plastic sheild inside..

[christhemann]

Just been thinking about it...

Trying to decide what could have caused the original oil pump to fail.
Only thing I can remember doing is changing the rocker cover after getting it blasted and powder coated.

Had a bad feeling after doing a search around the net that the shot blast material could have lodged in the breather and caused this to destroy the oil pump?
Anybody had experience with this?
I did shake it out and check the breather seemed clear when I got it back, and there were no loose particles or blasting material I could find.

[Jay4424]

I'm looking at changing my project car, so my reconditioned 16v/v 1.8 GTI engine and gear box could be available

[bensspares]

yes, ive had problems with bits of crud falling from the gauze in the r/c after cleaning it out which ended up in the o/pump pick up and resulted in loosing the oil pressure.There may have been particals of metal that wrecked the oil pump gears.....

[christhemann]

Ah right thanks for those comments.

I've got the oil filter off and sure enough there were bits of metal inside.
The bearings all appear ok after double checking, and endfloat seems alright.
Apparently cylinder bores looked good when the guy inspected them.

Next, i'll take the rocker cover off but not going to put it back again if theres still crap in the breather gauze / mesh.

Anybody know if you can totally remove the breather gauze / mesh to properly clean it out? Surely other replacement rocker covers would have the same problem potentially otherwise....