'88 Scala, 20 valve turbo, ATS Centras

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RobinJI
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'88 Scala, 20 valve turbo, ATS Centras

Post by RobinJI »

Hi guys, it's been a while since I was on here last, as other things have distracted me from the Scirocco, but it's been sat in the background all the while, and given an ultimatum in the form of loosing it's storage I decided it was time to dig it back out and replace my daily driver B3 Passat with it for a bit of day to day fun. Some of you may remember me from back when I was regular on here, the car used to have red Porsche Teledials on it, and I came to GTI international with a few of you when it was on some multi-spoke ATS and I'd just put the Recaros in?

The catch to putting it back in use was that it currently had a 1.6td golf GTD engine in it, which I fitted when I started uni to allow me to keep it on the road as I couldn't afford the fuel costs of the original engine at the time, this engine had however decided to seize it's self into one big solid lump on the A34 about this time last year, hence why the car was put in storage and a bargain basement diesel Passat was purchased.

Choosing what to replace the diesel with took some thinking, I didn't really want another diesel, as although it suited my needs at the time I fitted it, it doesn't really suit the character of the car. I thought if I was going to do another swap I may as well do it properly, so I narrowed it down to an ABF or 20vt. In the end the decission was made by the 20vt's economy when driven sensibly, and the fact I have a lot of spare 20vt parts 'in stock' for my other project (mid engined mini clubman estate). A Passat AEB engine was found, then all the parts to rotate it to the necessary transverse orientation were scrounged from an A3 obsessed friend, including an 02j gearbox. Sadly I had to sell my trusty 1.6td B3 Passat estate to fund it all, and then things got under way about a month ago.

I won't go through everything in too much detail, as we'd be here all week, but if there's any specific questions people have then by all means fire away! I've done a few bits in ways that probable seem a bit odd, this is basically a mixture of the fact that I am a little bit odd and like doing things my own way, (I'd rather work something out my self than read a guide about it,) and that I was working with what I had with very limited transport/time to get other bits.

Dragging the car out after a year in my dads barn:

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The car was covered in bits of dead moth from the bats that roost in the barn, not pleasant! (And neither was the accompanying bat-excrement!)

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We towed the car up to a friends workshop that they'd kindly agreed to let me use as long as I covered to costs of what I used, giving me access to a 4 post ramps, and an extensive selection of tools, including composite and metal fabricating kit.

Once there the old engine was freed:

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And the interior and dash were pulled out so I could wire in the new engine, as most of my Scirocco's dials were knackered I decided to fit the full management and dials that came with the engine, which also meant I didn't need to send the ECU off to remove the imobiliser. (The eagle eyed of you will spot that the seats aren't from the VW stable, they're '90 spec Escort RS turbo Recaros, and they're not normally that reclined!)

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The new engine waiting for it's next home:

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And a pile of parts ready to make the engine fit:

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The 02j gearbox was bolted to the engine with an ABF flywheel and a gifted VR6 clutch that only had ~1000 miles on it. The Audi A3 manifolds and turbo were fitted too to put all the pipework in more favorable positions.

The steel sump off the diesel was adapted to take the turbo's oil return, the diesel one clashed with a ridge on the block. The diesel's fixed cam-belt tensioner was fitted to the new engine, freeing up space to fit the original cam-belt end mount, which bolted straight on, giving me a nice datum to use to make up the other mounts confident that the drive-shafts would end up in the right place.

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Then I knocked up the other engine mounts all 3 of the others needed making as the 02j gearbox didn't have the original locations for the nearside and rear ones, and the Passat oil-filter housing was in the way of the front one. These recieved more reinforcement on the bench after:

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Once the mounts were all the right shape the engine came back out to give me space to work on the shell again.

Next up some mounts for the shifter were welded into the cabin, and holes for the cables drilled in the bulkhead. I like high shifters, so I chose to mount the new cable shifter quite high in the cabin rather than under the tunnel, this feels lovely as well as freeing up space for the exhaust, the handbrake mounts needed a little tweaking to make it sit a little higher at rest in order to clear the shifter:

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I was in a weird mood when I tackled the clutch, so I decided to go about converting to hydraulic using a master cylinder from a classic Mini, it's what I had to hand and I thought it's built in reservoir made for quite a neat touch. This fits in the scuttle-tray, so a hole was cut in the tray and a 2.5mm steel platform was welded in for it to sit on, including a pair of M8 mounting studs:

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The clutch arm had the cable related bits chopped off (leaving enough for the return stop to still do it's job) and an extra little arm was welded to the rear of it and drilled to take the clevis pin for the master cylinder, this was done with quite a high pedal ratio to make up for the fact the mini master cylinder is a larger bore than the one that would normally go with the box:

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The master cylinders push-rod was extended to reach the pedal and made adjustable so I could fine-tune the biting point:

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While the engine was out the pullys were adapted to loose the power-steering pump and reduced to run a single serpentine belt by welding the outside of the power-steering pumps pully onto the centre of the water pump's one and then rummaging in the local parts place for a suitable belt:

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The engine bay got a good degrease and clean too, not as good as I'd have liked, but I needed the car working ASAP having sold my daily driver and living in the middle of nowhere! In fact the attention to detail's not as good as I'd have liked on most of the build, the priority's been on getting the car on the road in a reliable fashion:

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As the car was originally carbed I needed to do something about fitting a pump and preventing starvation on hard cornering, so I knocked up a swirl pot that contained a Vauxhall Astra 2.0l 16v fuel pump, which I mounted in the engine bay with a facet low-pressure pump supplying it with fuel from under the floor below the rear bench:

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An exahaust was made up using 2.5" pipe for most of it, with 3" for the down-pipe and a single box at the rear:

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Once the engine went back in the down-pipe could be finished off, I ended up making the flange by cutting the centre out of a classic Mini disc brake! :lol:

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Fitted:

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Single tail-pipe added (excuse all the welds, I'd run out of proper 2.5" bends by then!):

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Lambda boss added, and you can see I polly-bushed the rack while the engine was out:

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A new standard Scirocco radiator was fitted and there was a massive amount of faffing around with coolant and intercooler flexible pipe adapting and solid pipe fabrication until all the plumbing was looking good and air/water tight. The intercooler was already mounted from the turbo diesel that had come out.

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The dial faces and needles were moved around allowing them to just fit inside the standard dials housing, the paper blanking was replaced with one cut out of a thin sheet of carbon-fibre. These were fitted behind the dash with a bit of chopping about of the dash's steel structure:

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Some wires, relays and fuses were added, a key was turned and it drove. Easy.... honest.. ;)

Having been sat for so long the brake flexies all needed replacing thanks to perishing, but once that was done it flew through the MOT without even an advisory.

The only trouble was the clutch was slipping horenously, I was worried it was my somewhat unorthodox clutch set-up, but some fault finding removed that as a possibility and after much swearing I bit the bullet and pulled the box back off and replaced the 1000 mile old clutch I'd been given with a nice new one, problem solved!

Since then I've done a couple of hundred miles in it and it's not missed a beat. Starts first time every time and goes pretty damn well!

The dials fitted:

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And illuminated, green back-light matches the Sciroccos dash well:

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I got a few photos of it this afternoon after giving it a quick clean to remove a years worth of barn-crap and oily finger-prints. The wheels are temperary, I've got some 16x7.5" Azev A's to go on it, but they're at the wrong end of the country at the moment, so these have been borrowed off a friend's mk2 Astra Rally car while it gets a new gearbox over the winter. Besides the engine the car's got the ford seats, some TA Technix coilovers (with a few tweaks) and 280mm front brakes, but from now on my priorty will be to sort out the handling, I might have something posh lined up for the brakes, and although I'm very impressed with the TA Technix for the money, I'll be doing what I can to get the suspension as good as possible as and when funds allow:

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Anyway, I hope you like the car. It's a little tatty visually, but generally solid and free from any structural rust, and it's a great laugh to drive.

Thanks for reading, Robin.

(As I say, any questions fire away!)
Last edited by RobinJI on Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:50 am, edited 2 times in total.


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Mr Funk
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Re: '88 Scala, 20 valve turbo

Post by Mr Funk »

I bet that chuffing flies!
Top work


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Risocco
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Re: '88 Scala, 20 valve turbo

Post by Risocco »

That looks great dude, hats off to your engineering skills there. Proper sleeper too.


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RobinJI
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Re: '88 Scala, 20 valve turbo

Post by RobinJI »

Cheers. It's not slow but it's nothing spectacular. The engine's a 150bhp model, and still running the standard VW map and boost level of 5/6psi, so won't be anything over 155bhp no matter how well my exhaust/intercooler are doing. Still, at ~172bhp ton it's not at all slow either.

I'm planning to put on a k03s turbo off a 180bhp car (facelifted A3/later mk4 golfs) which with a re-map should see ~230bhp, which will keep me happy for the indefinite future.

Like I said in my earlier post, handling's my main concern now, first priority's to remove all the unwanted movement in the suspension. I want to replace the top mounts with solid pillow-balls and I need to make up a lower and upper strut brace at some point, and I'm tempted to knock up some rose jointed tubular lower-arms. (If I do I'll try and offer a group buy of them). Still thinking about what to do out back. Once the flex is under control the cheep coilovers will be replaced with something posh/decent.

Brakes are a work in progress, I've been offered some calipers dirt cheep that I want to fit, but I'm not sure I'm going to be able to make them go, they need some persuasion to get them on there, and even then I'm not 100% they'll work just yet. I've got a rear disc set-up to go on when the front's get upgraded.

Edit, Thanks Risocco, pleased to hear you're impressed by it, amazing what access to the right tools and a little practice at using them can lead to, I'm nothing special in terms of natural talent, I've just done my fair share of this sort of stuff before (considering my age).


lancekeatley
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Re: '88 Scala, 20 valve turbo

Post by lancekeatley »

very good work mate. Hydraulic clutch mounting has impressed me ;)


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RobinJI
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Re: '88 Scala, 20 valve turbo

Post by RobinJI »

Thanks Lance, you're more than welcome to steel the master cylinder idea, but just to warn you I did have to modify the reservoir slightly to clear the wiper arm in the end, as it clashed by a few mm. I'm not sure what else uses a master cylinder that's mounted vertically like this but there may be something that would suit it well. You could use the original Audi/VW one that matches the box, which would work nicely, but getting a reservoir higher than its input (and under the bonnet!) would be difficult, you want a built in one really, plus you'd still have to lengthen the push-rod, which wouldn't be so easy with it's part plastic construction.

Because the MC I had used a plastic reservoir I basically cut the back half off it and glued a flat sheet over the back of it to give the clearance, not ideal but it works and it's leak free. If you wanted to copy it the best bet would be to get a cylinder from an earlier mini which use a steel reservoir, meaning you could just slice the side off and weld flat in. Probably easier to just use the set-up I've seen on the Caddy forum though, with the original cylinder in the cabin along side the steering column. I'm a bit odd so did it this way.

In case you're wondering, the clutch feels great this way. Fairly heavy but it's sort of in keeping with the rest of the Scirocco's controls, biting points spot on and it's a nice smooth consistent feel.

I wish I'd had the time to do things to the sort of standard you are, I hate that mines still pretty grubby and unrefined in the engine bay, at least it makes it all look a little more OEM haha.


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Re: '88 Scala, 20 valve turbo

Post by Village Idiots »

Excellent transplant. Nice to see someone using their brain to overcome problems rather than throw money at a project. You must get an enormous sense of achievement from this.


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RobinJI
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Re: '88 Scala, 20 valve turbo

Post by RobinJI »

Thanks Village Idiots, the sense of satisfaction's a lot of the reason I did it, it sounds silly but I'm not actually very bothered about having a fast car on the road, it is good fun, but I rarely use the power these days, which is why I'm more bothered about working on the handling now. It's partly why I chose the 20vt, because I know it'll give good economy when driven sensibly. But yeah, the satisfaction of knowing that I put the engine in there, and made it fit and work is great, I do all the work I can on my cars, regardless of whether it's cost effective or not because I find it satisfying. It's the same reason I intentionally didn't really do much looking at other 20vt builds before tackling mine, it meant that when I was met with a challenge I had the satisfaction of finding my own way of solving the puzzle. I would have liked more time to do it all, but that's life I guess.

I'll be approaching the brakes and suspension with the same attitude, so we'll have to see where things take me, I've got a few ideas in mind.

The same will apply with my Mini which is my long term project car, there's a lot of parts of it I could just pay someone else to do for less than it'd cost to buy the kit to do it my self, but I'd rather have some cool tools and the satisfaction that comes with knowing I built the car my self, even if it takes longer and costs more.


mark1gls
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Re: '88 Scala, 20 valve turbo

Post by mark1gls »

Top work fella,
Your not to far from me, I'm live in a little village between Castle Cary and Sparkford. I'll have to keep an eye out for you!


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RevDarkman
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Re: '88 Scala, 20 valve turbo

Post by RevDarkman »

Lovely job.

Wish I could borrow a workshop ! I have most tools and skills but nowhere to do them!


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RobinJI
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Re: '88 Scala, 20 valve turbo

Post by RobinJI »

Thanks guys. mark1gls, yeah you're not far at all then. Might be a bit out of your way but there's a monthly Retro-Rides meet in taunton I always go to that you'd be more than welcome to come to sometime. Need to find out when exactly as we've changed it this month but I can't remember which day it's changed to. We meet up at a friends unit in South-Chard which is a bit closer for you too, but I'd have to check with them as it's more invite only because of being their own place.

RevDarkman, I know how you feel. My access to this workshop's far from unrestricted, I have to sort out when I'm going to use it well in advance, and pay my way towards the bills. Still it's a massive bonus, I don't even have a driveway at home so somewhere to work on the car's essential for me. My dad's driveway and barns are ideal but he's the best part of an hour drive away.


Plans are starting to emerge for the new brakes too. I'm considering doing some pretty drastic suspension modifications to improve the handling and get the car sitting a bit lower. It bugs me that the suspension's all so contorted from being lowered so much even though there's still loads of ground clearance. I'll be wanting to end up a fair bit lower and wider, but with better suspension geometry. I've arranged to stick the car on the ramps tomorrow afternoon so I can strip things back a bit for a preliminary poke around so I can take some measurements and start working on real plans. The idea I've got in my head at the moment's lengthened wishbones and hubs modified to move the lower ball-joint down as far as I can and change the brake mounts to fit the some Brembo calipers I've been offered along with ~280/300mm discs and maybe shorten the steering arms for quicker steering. Track rods will be extended and the rod end replaced with a rose-joint. All using mk4 driveshafts. I want to fit pillow-ball top mounts too, as well as some firm polly-bushes on the lower-arms. Then I'll want to 'triangulate' the rear beam and modify it to space the stub-axle mounts out to match the front. Should add about 110mm to the track width without having to use silly off-sets on the wheels as well as bringing the wishbones back towards horizontal. Not sure when this'll happen though, it'll depend how quickly I can get the money together.


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RobinJI
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Re: '88 Scala, 20 valve turbo, New wheels

Post by RobinJI »

Well the new wheels have finally found their way down to the shire, with a massive thanks to a couple of guys off Retro Rides for delivering them for free from North Wales! Tried them on the car and I'm really pleased with how them look. It could do with comming down a few mm, and the rears need spacing to fill the arch (and maybe the fronts) but they look a hell of a lot better even now, and I think there's potential for them to look great on there.

The downside however, is that one of the wheels has a pretty huge kink in it ::) I really am starting to loose faith in humanity, why are people such selfish pricks? Anyway, I don't think it's beyond repair at least, I've got the majority of it out already, and I'll have more of a go at it tomorrow. I'm hoping it'll come out nice and round, but if not I'll be on the look out for a pair of 16x7.5 Azev A's.

The tyres on them are 205/45 R16, which works out as a few mm oversized rolling radius wise, but this is a good thing in terms of gearing with the torque the 1.8t throws out, and they seem to clear everything fine, when they wear out they'll probably get replaced with 215/40s though. The extra tyre height definitely needs taking out on the coilovers sometime, but I want to do some other mods before I come down much more, unfortunately it's kind of at the limit of where they start driving badly as it is, nothing that can't be corrected though ;).

So then, pictures. Obviously the centre caps will be painted silver to match sometime, and once the salt dissapears off the road I'll probably polish the lips like they are on genuine Azevs:

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So yeah, what do people think? Down and out a little more for now, then the wide track and silly arch mods when time/money allow I think.


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Mr Funk
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Re: '88 Scala, 20 valve turbo, New wheels

Post by Mr Funk »

Fanfokintastic


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Risocco
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Re: '88 Scala, 20 valve turbo, New wheels

Post by Risocco »

Nice dude, works perfectly well with black centres to be fair :good:


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RobinJI
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Re: '88 Scala, 20 valve turbo, New wheels

Post by RobinJI »

Thanks guys, glad to hear other people like the wheels too. I think the black centers are growing on me, I still want to do something with them, but I'm not 100% what yet.

A couple of quick shots mates got while I was swapping over my outer CV joints at the weekend at a friends workshop:

Backing into the unit:

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And me looking my usual geeky self (although I'm usually somewhat more washed, this was after sleeping in a workshop all weekend!):

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Work/looking for a new job, plus visiting my brother at uni's been holding me up the last few weeks, progress will probably be a little slow now, I just want to tinker and get the car generally tidier and more sorted before doing much more in the way of drastic mods. Front brakes and modded hubs will hopefully happen soonish still though, or I'll end up shelling out for new pads in the mean time.


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