OEM Coil Springs

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RussGLAuto
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Re: OEM Coil Springs

Post by RussGLAuto » Sat Nov 13, 2021 6:52 am

Evening gents,

So after some refurbishment of the original top spring mounts got both units assembled and refitted. I spoke to soon when I said the near side rear was a doddle to remove, the offside rear fought me! Some muppet had assembled the shock top bolt incorrectly and locked the load spreading washer with a second nut under effectively jamming it in place and hidden by the top bushing... Oh, and the top nut was x-threaded! Ended up having to clamp a mole grip to the shock shaft while I wrestled it off. :dash:

There may have been some beeps needed during the afternoon...

The only part I reused was the top spring mount and spacer, after de-rusting they got a coat of Jenolite rust converter. Great stuff and works really fast in 15 mins. Then a couple of coats of grey primer before the black topcoats. In fact, I'm considering giving the rear beam a coating of this stuff as it turns any surface rust black.
Screenshot 2021-11-12 at 22.07.56.png
Screenshot 2021-11-12 at 22.07.20.png
Screenshot 2021-11-12 at 22.06.43.png
As an aside you don't need to use the spring compressors when removing or mounting (I guess you all knew that but this is my first effort!) however they are needed to compress the new spring on fitting to the shock so that the top mount can be fitted correctly in place.
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Last edited by RussGLAuto on Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.


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RussGLAuto
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Re: OEM Coil Springs

Post by RussGLAuto » Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:04 am

Someone previously got their nuts in a twist:
Screenshot 2021-11-12 at 22.10.16.png
Again, took the time to degrease and scrub the wheel arch while waiting for the paint to dry on the top mount. That stainless steel powder coated filler neck from Dreadnaught Customs still looking pristine after two years service. Thanks Tom!
Screenshot 2021-11-12 at 22.09.26.png
Ready to fit:
Screenshot 2021-11-12 at 22.11.29.png
Right, now for the front units and wishbones... :pilot:
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mark1gls
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Re: OEM Coil Springs

Post by mark1gls » Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:56 pm

Coming together nicely.

You will definitely need the spring compressor for the fronts.

If you are reusing your front struts and fitting new inserts I’ve found when you Jack up the front try and loosen the big nut holding the shock insert inside the strut as you can get more leverage when the struts attached to the car. I use a big pair of stillsons or a pair of water pump pliers may also do it depend on how rusty they are.

Bit more info here and he has but a red circle around the nut I’m talking about.

https://vwgolfmk1.org.uk/forum/index.ph ... lace-front


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GT_II
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Re: OEM Coil Springs

Post by GT_II » Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:01 pm

I'm glad it's going well - looking forward to hearing your progress on the front struts. I have the same spring set to fit to my GT II at some point - need to get rid of those pesky MOT advisories.


1992 VW Scirocco GT II 1.8 90PS Brilliant Black 30k
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RussGLAuto
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Re: OEM Coil Springs

Post by RussGLAuto » Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:53 pm

Thanks for the comments chaps.

I pushed the boat out and got the Bilstein front struts and inserts, but thanks for the tip. I will be keeping them for a refurbish at some point.

Slightly more nervous about the front replacement, mainly regarding the eccentric bolt and positioning so as not to upset the tracking. I have seen the thread from the Mk1 Golf site, good advice but was hoping for a more accurate way. May have to take it for a check at my local Bush tyre centre post fitting.

Also going to replace the wishbones, got some heritage power flex bushings for that. All ready to go! I'll post some more pics next week.

Russ


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WreckTangle
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Re: OEM Coil Springs

Post by WreckTangle » Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:13 am

The eccentric bolt is used to adjust the camber. It may be best to get a cheap camber gauge off eBay and use this to set the camber. -0.5 to -1deg. Then get the tracking done.



GT_II
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Re: OEM Coil Springs

Post by GT_II » Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:21 am

Most garages and tyre places now do a full 4-wheel alignment check/adjustment including camber and toe - though not much use doing the rears as there is nothing to adjust. Official VW alignment table for front axle (covers Mk1 and Mk2 Scirocco):
VW A1 chassis front wheel alignment - 1988 revision.jpg
The basic figures for injection and carb models are the same, but the permitted tolerance for camber on the injection cars is smaller. So both camber and toe are ideally slightly positive. Footnote 1 states that for very sporty drivers, toe can be set to -10' and camber set to +40'.

Can anyone tell me what positive figures for toe and camber in this table actually mean? Front of the wheels slightly further apart than the back and top of the wheels slightly further apart than the bottom, maybe?
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1992 VW Scirocco GT II 1.8 90PS Brilliant Black 30k
2011 VW Caddy Van C20 Startline 1.6 TDI 102PS 65k
2015 Skoda Yeti SE Outdoor 1.2 TSI DSG 105PS 35k
2013 Fiat 500 Pop 1.2 69PS 40k
2009 VW Fox 1.2 54PS 60k
2009 Smart Fortwo Passion 1.0 mhd 71PS 25k

RussGLAuto
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:51 pm
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Re: OEM Coil Springs

Post by RussGLAuto » Sun Nov 14, 2021 8:18 am

WreckTangle wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:13 am
The eccentric bolt is used to adjust the camber. It may be best to get a cheap camber gauge off eBay and use this to set the camber. -0.5 to -1deg. Then get the tracking done.
Hi WT,

I was thinking something along these lines after watching Edd China's episode on his outspan orange refurbishment! Minute 27:00 on the link seems a very simple and reasonably accurate way of measuring the camber:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtJIkKH_dnI

However, something even better is this I found on Amazon:
Screenshot 2021-11-14 at 07.10.52.png
Think I'll bite the bullet and give it a go, anything better than guessing... I can then measure the angle prior to removal and replicate on re-fitting. Looks like it's a magnetic fit to the brake disk.
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Daily Driver - 2017 Volvo XC90 T8 Twin Engine - Polestar - Arctic White
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Other Half's Wagon - 2020 Renault Clio RS Line - White
Daughters Curb Scraper - 2016 Fiat 500 1.2 - White

RussGLAuto
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Re: OEM Coil Springs

Post by RussGLAuto » Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:48 am

GT_II wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:21 am
Most garages and tyre places now do a full 4-wheel alignment check/adjustment including camber and toe - though not much use doing the rears as there is nothing to adjust. Official VW alignment table for front axle (covers Mk1 and Mk2 Scirocco):

VW A1 chassis front wheel alignment - 1988 revision.jpg

The basic figures for injection and carb models are the same, but the permitted tolerance for camber on the injection cars is smaller. So both camber and toe are ideally slightly positive. Footnote 1 states that for very sporty drivers, toe can be set to -10' and camber set to +40'.

Can anyone tell me what positive figures for toe and camber in this table actually mean? Front of the wheels slightly further apart than the back and top of the wheels slightly further apart than the bottom, maybe?
Thanks GT_II,

Where on earth do you find your info? Have you got one of those elusive VW Garage manuals? Been looking for copies on E-Bay for a while, all I can find is German copies! :good:


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GT_II
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Re: OEM Coil Springs

Post by GT_II » Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:48 am

On erWin, you can access digital versions of all workshop manuals, both English & German. There are more manuals available in German than in English, so it pays to download both. The benefit of the digital versions is they also include supplements issued after publication of the original manual.

Registering is free, so you can see what is available before you pay. Browse carefully before you pay, as you can download as many manuals as want once you've paid for your 1 hour "trolley dash", which from memory costs just 9 Euros. I think I downloaded every single English manual for the Caddy and Fox as well as both English and German manuals for the Scirocco in that time, plus a selection of VW "Self Study Guides".


1992 VW Scirocco GT II 1.8 90PS Brilliant Black 30k
2011 VW Caddy Van C20 Startline 1.6 TDI 102PS 65k
2015 Skoda Yeti SE Outdoor 1.2 TSI DSG 105PS 35k
2013 Fiat 500 Pop 1.2 69PS 40k
2009 VW Fox 1.2 54PS 60k
2009 Smart Fortwo Passion 1.0 mhd 71PS 25k

mark1gls
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Re: OEM Coil Springs

Post by mark1gls » Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:53 am

As you are replacing a lot of stuff on the front I would get the car set up properly with a garage that has all the equipment, it’s not cheap but neither is replacing front tyres that wear out uneven.

Both camber and tracking will need doing but after fitting and wait a couple of weeks for things to settle down before getting it set up.
I’ve got the gauge in your link above and it does work well but the main problem is to get the reading, the car need to be on a level surface and on its wheels, I use a 14” spirit level (you can use any flat straight bit of metal) across the wheel edges and then but the gauge onto the spirit level and get the reading. (You need a vertical surface to get the gauge to zero before starting)
You can Jack the car up remove the wheel and fit the gauge onto the brake disc then set the gauge to zero, do the work and then move the camber back to zero once it’s all back together. Once it’s all done and the car has settled check the camber with the car on the ground and on its wheels again. When ever you adjust the camber it will move the tracking so it’s camber 1st then tracking.
I run mine with 0.5 negative camber and it seem to wear the tyres out fairly evenly.


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mark1gls
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Re: OEM Coil Springs

Post by mark1gls » Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:56 am

If you are replacing the wishbone it’s a good time to fit a lower strut brace as they make a massive difference to the handling…

I fitted one like this last year.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191991884333 ... BMhIqv4aNf


Mk1 78 Scirocco GLS 1.6 FR, weekend toy.
Mk1 88 Golf GTi cabriolet 1.8 DX. Daily drive.
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mark1gls
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Re: OEM Coil Springs

Post by mark1gls » Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:02 pm

Image


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RussGLAuto
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Re: OEM Coil Springs

Post by RussGLAuto » Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:03 pm

GT_II wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:48 am
On erWin, you can access digital versions of all workshop manuals, both English & German. There are more manuals available in German than in English, so it pays to download both. The benefit of the digital versions is they also include supplements issued after publication of the original manual.

Registering is free, so you can see what is available before you pay. Browse carefully before you pay, as you can download as many manuals as want once you've paid for your 1 hour "trolley dash", which from memory costs just 9 Euros. I think I downloaded every single English manual for the Caddy and Fox as well as both English and German manuals for the Scirocco in that time, plus a selection of VW "Self Study Guides".
Never heard of it but looks like a good website thank you. I can feel some downloading coming on!! :ebay:


Daily Driver - 2017 Volvo XC90 T8 Twin Engine - Polestar - Arctic White
Weekend Wagon - 51k 1982 Mk2 Scirocco 1.6 GL Auto - Diamond Silver
Other Half's Wagon - 2020 Renault Clio RS Line - White
Daughters Curb Scraper - 2016 Fiat 500 1.2 - White

RussGLAuto
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:51 pm
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Re: OEM Coil Springs

Post by RussGLAuto » Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:10 pm

mark1gls wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:53 am
As you are replacing a lot of stuff on the front I would get the car set up properly with a garage that has all the equipment, it’s not cheap but neither is replacing front tyres that wear out uneven.

Both camber and tracking will need doing but after fitting and wait a couple of weeks for things to settle down before getting it set up.
I’ve got the gauge in your link above and it does work well but the main problem is to get the reading, the car need to be on a level surface and on its wheels, I use a 14” spirit level (you can use any flat straight bit of metal) across the wheel edges and then but the gauge onto the spirit level and get the reading. (You need a vertical surface to get the gauge to zero before starting)
You can Jack the car up remove the wheel and fit the gauge onto the brake disc then set the gauge to zero, do the work and then move the camber back to zero once it’s all back together. Once it’s all done and the car has settled check the camber with the car on the ground and on its wheels again. When ever you adjust the camber it will move the tracking so it’s camber 1st then tracking.
I run mine with 0.5 negative camber and it seem to wear the tyres out fairly evenly.
Yep, agree 100%. I just wanted to get Gladys in the 'ballpark' before taking it to Bush tyres Spalding who have got all the laser alignment gizmo's. They have a Mk1 Golf GTi owner mechanic working for them who sorted out my wayward tracking and off centre steering wheel. She kept pulling to the left with me having to constantly steer to the right to keep it on the road! Not ideal...

He took the steering wheel off, centred the passenger front then adjusted the tracking arm on the drivers side until centred then put the steering wheel back on.

She's been hands off straight and true and the steering wheel level ever since!

I did give them the Haynes manual camber and toe info to make sure it was correct. They didn't have a Mk2 Scirocco on the laser alignment gizmo! :hugegrin:

Cheers

Russ


Daily Driver - 2017 Volvo XC90 T8 Twin Engine - Polestar - Arctic White
Weekend Wagon - 51k 1982 Mk2 Scirocco 1.6 GL Auto - Diamond Silver
Other Half's Wagon - 2020 Renault Clio RS Line - White
Daughters Curb Scraper - 2016 Fiat 500 1.2 - White