WINSTON 1988 GT MK2

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treefingers
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Re: HERMAN THE SECOND! 88 MK2 GT

Post by treefingers » Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:11 pm

Hi. So the reverse gear issue is now sorted, somehow I knocked the plastic bit of the gear linkage off the car.. picked it up off the workshop floor and tossed it away 2 days before I realised what it was for (facepalm).

Been making more stuff to save me from buying more stuff, plus making stuff is really fun.

Front anti roll bar clamps.. My arb used to break these for a pass time, they would tear the metal and I'd have one half of the bar floating above the wishbone, can't work out why it did this before. Even did it with new OEM clamps. If I'm going to break clamps I want to be able to replace them with ease, so after some mucking about I made a jig and came up with these from 3mm mild steel. The bolts are removable which should make fitting them easier, and it makes the bolts replaceable. Took a few goes to get the measurements right.

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Then remade the clamps from 3mm 304 stainless steel. Was so hard to roll the loop I had to get the oxy torch out and red-hot 'em.

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Had to shape the bolt heads slightly, as it's tight in there. Happy with the finished version though, strong and it wont rust.
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Next.. been experimenting with new top mount designs, more on that later. Proper springs up front though.. 400lb
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Next up.. G60 big brake trial test fit for BBS RA's! The big question.. will they fit under the 15" wheels? Can I keep these wheels for this car at least for a short while? They're growing on me a bit and I'd quite like to. Plus they are really light.. compared to banded G60 steels anyway!

To start I removed the 239mm front disc from the car and put up against a 280mm G60 disc for size comparison! Nice improvement over stock brakes. Will need good stoppage too.
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Trial fitted the caliper spacer bracket. Had to grind out a bolt on the wheel bearing housing (for a dust shield or something). It's not very flat on the mounting face, loads of rust and the bracket doesn't sit flush. I'll need to hit with a wire wheel and see if I can improve things.
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I boltied on the MK3 GTI brakes and fitted a BBS RA. And.. our survey says.. wheel - potatey - no - rotatey. The caliper carrier fouls the wheel. It's too big right on the corners.
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Hmm I thought. Time for some material removal then. I marked the fouling location through the wheel spokes and marked again with an 'x' here..
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Then removed some material with a grinder..
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Took a few goes but eventually got just enough off so that the wheel turns now. That's important apparently. And I don't think it makes any difference to the carrier strength-wise. See through the spokes..
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I'm very happy to know that these will fit when it comes to it. So if you want big brakes for cheap under BBS RA's, use the following setup:

MK3 golf 8v calipers and carriers for a 280mm disc. Use from a pre 1996 car as they changed design to 288mm later. These are the same as G60 calipers at a fraction of the cost.
280mm G60 vented discs (a febi pair cost £45)
Adapter brackets from ebay or the like. (£30ish)
A grinder!

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treefingers
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Re: HERMAN THE SECOND! 88 MK2 GT

Post by treefingers » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:34 pm

this weekend i made a lower strut brace/sub frame thing.. i'm too tired for typing right now so here's some photos.

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I've decided this car is being called Winston. He feels like a Winston.



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essextom
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Re: WINSTON 1988 GT MK2

Post by essextom » Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:28 am

good work mate



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C 20 CCO
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Re: WINSTON 1988 GT MK2

Post by C 20 CCO » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:15 pm

Absolutely bang on matey, pictures can say a lot more than words :good:


kind regards,

Dave.

To be old and wise......
You must first be young and stupid!

In the garage : 2005 Volvo V50 2L D in brilliant blue metallic.
2011 Mazda2 Tamura in vibrant ebony metallic.
Prized possession- 1991 GT11 in Pearl green metallic.

treefingers
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Re: WINSTON 1988 GT MK2

Post by treefingers » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:17 pm

Cheers.

Tonight I cleaned up the subframe. Also made some gussets with a hole saw from 4mm mild steel.
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Final test fit after some post heat distortion fettling..
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Finished now, just needs paint. Happy with the result. Looking forward to trying it out on the road!
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treefingers
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Re: WINSTON 1988 GT MK2

Post by treefingers » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:12 pm

Soo this is turning into make 'stuff now for the initial MOT and drive about' but make it with a view of what's to come later, and what's coming later is going to be good.


Erm, brakes! brakes! brakes!

This post is about brakes only!

Brakes! Brakes! Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!

Braaaaakess!

What a saga it's been of the winding of the cogs of the mental faculties. All good though. I thought I had bought 280mm Girling 54 calipers for my 280mm G60 discs.. ooh no how wrong I was. That's what happens when you buy parts, every now and then you buy what looks like what you think you want but turns out to not be what you wanted. And after finding my new brake pads wouldn't fit my calipers I did a lot of searching on oemepc.com and ebay and discovered I have 288mm ATE calipers, from a LATE (post '96) mk3 Golf, and a size that was used on a lot of cars from the VAG stable after this time. 288mm calipers that don't fit with my brackets/wheels/etc.

Hmm I thought, that solves that mystery. So do I just get 280mm calipers I thought? That sounds like the easy option?? What am I losing in 8mm diameter? I did some calculations on the differences in brake pad sizes, and the 288mm brakes have about 20% more pad surface area. Also, the 288mm discs are 25mm thick, rather than 22mm thick. I is thinking better coefficient of friction plus more mass for better heat dissipation = much more goodness for some lap on lap track thrashing. The goal then.. to make these brakes work, and to make them fit under 15" BBS RAs. OK brain, engage!

Firstly what discs to run? VW didn't do 288mm discs in 4-stud. Here were my considerations:

-Use the biggest VAG disc in 4 stud, a 304mm 4x100 disc on a Seat Ibiza Cupra. I thought about using these and turning them down, but not at £200 a set on ebay.
- Use late MK3 golf discs, redrill from 5x100 to 4x100. Center bore is good. A perfect choice, except the offset is different and would push the caliper mounting outwards meaning the wheels wouldn't fit.
- Use modern era Golf/Audi discs (last 5 years). Offset and center bore of 65mm are good, but the hole spacing is 5x112. This would be OK, except for some reason there are 10 holes in the brake disc, making redrilling not really feasable.

What I ended up going with was discs from my old Audi A4 B5 (1997). These are 288mm, 25mm wide, with an offset that pushes the caliper mounting away from the wheel rather than towards it. And as a bonus I had a rusty set of these in my container, about all that was left of the pearl white beast. Perfect for some mocking up. The only problems being the center bore is 68mm instead of 65mm, and they are drilled 5x112 instead of 4x100.

Comparison with the G60 discs. Much more pad contact area. Me likey.
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To overcome the holes being less holey than desired for my application, I drilled new holes. I have no issue with redrilling as the holes aren't for locating, that's what the center of the disc is for.
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The last hole will need to be a bit jelly baby shaped.
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In terms of the center bore being different, I found out (after much googling) that companies make brake disc centering rings off the shelf, exactly for this problem, like spigot rings for brake discs. So I've ordered some 65 to 68mm ones of these. Bolting disc in central position to Scirocco hub = complete.

The next thing to deal with is mounting the caliper. The brackets I had work by mounting on the wrong side of the hub brake lugs, in that they are bolted to the non-machined side of the hub lugs, and I didn't like this. Luckily the offset difference meant I could mount the brackets on the machined side. The carrier would foul on the disc like this:

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To get the carrier central to the disc, I had to mill 2mm of material from the mounting face.
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Our mill is a piece of crap and the bed doesn't stay in the same position sometimes. Annoyed about the witnesses on the second piece! Very frustrating but got something that will work.
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Enough clearance now.
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Next up.. the mounting brackets. The existing G60 brackets wouldn't work due to the extra brake pad mass, so after some material removal with the grinder, I came up with this

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I didn't like how little material was around the center hole, so I began to make my own brackets from 8mm steel plate. 8mm is the same thickness as the brake lugs on the A1 wheel bearing housing. I wanted more MEAT on my brackets!

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Dormer do these lovely drill and tap sets. 10.2mm drill for an m12 tap. Mmmm dormery goodness makes cutty cuttness.
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My custom brackets done
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Bolt up like this
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Awesome being able to mock all of this up ion the vice
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Test fitted my wheel, and the caliper just brushed the spokes. Ahh what to do. The caliper needed to move inwards, or the wheel move outwards! The disc offset meant the caliper had to stay in position, I didn't want to grind away my calipers again, or to run wheel spacers with longer bolts. I decided to reduce the brake pad thickness. I'll probably run some different wheels with more clearance later so this won't always be an issue. I took 5mm off the outside pad from 20mm to 15mm.
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Still a good amount of meat. I love meat.
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So there we have it, 288mm Audi A4 discs with late MK3 Golf brakes under 15" BBS RA wheels. Don't know if this has been done before but I'm hoping it's going to make the Winston stop like hell!! What a saga! I quite enjoyed it really.
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Final bonus: I just got some Febi discs for an A4 for £27 from ebay. Love a bargain.



treefingers
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Re: WINSTON 1988 GT MK2

Post by treefingers » Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:17 pm

New parts from Noath Precision
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Drilling complete
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treefingers
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Re: WINSTON 1988 GT MK2

Post by treefingers » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:55 pm

New top mount design.. standard height.

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Started on a temporary strut brace for this engine
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Clearance
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Not massively happy with the angle of the bar of the brace, so might cut it and reweld before I paint it. Top mounts fitted now also..
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Subframe finished and painted
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New febi wishbones loaded up
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New rods, boots and Noath rod ends
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Couldn't resist laying it all out
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Time to fit everything!
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Winston had other ideas and put up a fight
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So I turned my welder up to 4 and fought back! Thou shalt not resist newness
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Threads were jammed up, so cleaned them but with a standard pitch tap by mistake (fine thread for these holes!), quite annoying. New 10.9 bolts and lots of threadlock in here then!
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All fitted
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Clearance!
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That suspension badly needs to go.
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Shiney from the ground up.
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Sat on the ground. Perfect wishbone and trackrod angles. What we want!
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MOT booked for Rocco for Monday.

Ferry booked for Rocco for Lemans 24hr in June... Non toll roads is the plan.



treefingers
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Re: WINSTON 1988 GT MK2

Post by treefingers » Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:21 pm

Picked up this boy for the Scirocco on Friday. It's not going in just yet but it's a hint at the general theme of this car. Garrett GT2871r. Was after a GT2860, the next one down, but this came up cheap, and I couldn't resist. Spec'd on their website for between 280 and 475 horses. At the moment it just makes a cracking ornament/paperweight/artpiece. I can't stop looking at it, and I'm very very excited. 8-) :pilot:

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mark1gls
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Re: WINSTON 1988 GT MK2

Post by mark1gls » Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:10 pm

Ohhh a turbo.... how exciting :-D

Great thread and lovely work so far, I know it's quite on here at the minute but please keep the updates coming..


Mk1 78 Scirocco GLS 1.6 FR, weekend toy.
Mk1 88 Golf GTi cabriolet 1.8 DX. Daily drive.
Membership No. 323

treefingers
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Re: WINSTON 1988 GT MK2

Post by treefingers » Mon May 11, 2020 8:55 pm

So drove the car about for a week on carb power, then Covid meant that I couldn't do Lemans with it in June, and one thing led to another as it seems to do..

Strip
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Shell pretty good, usual suspects tho
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OK PLAN> make this car good, easy to work on, easy to build, push myself a bit, make it better than before.

Start of plan: rollover jig
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Bearings for the spinny bit..
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Real smooth rotation, but not a solid structure due to being a self-aligning bearing
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Doubled up the tie bar and stiff enough now
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Beer earned
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Stores well. what a novelty. made me feel sick the first few times rotating the car, so unnatural to see at this angle!
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NEXT PART..

Roll-around-frame, 'permanently on axle stands', can wheel around, but does not interfere with suspension

Chassis measurements
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Taught myself autocad, designed frame..
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very happy with the wheely-frame-thing. perfect for my needs. game changer!

Ah-sorted-perry
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NEXT PART-WASH THE CRAP and reveal the torso underneath.

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moving on, continue with the plan, removable front end to make getting the engine in and out very easy. Cut weakness out and add STRENGTH to this 1970s design.

This took ages.
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Taking a break to watch classic BTCC with Ed over facetime!
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Mounts for new removable front crossmember brace, 2mm steel
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Brace brackets
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Folded on the press
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Made my own box section from folding 3mm steel
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Fully welded. Box section profile is 65x35mm.
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I'm making the bay look good, but I'm not making a show car, I'm making a GO car.
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Found a good way to fill holes, use the rejects from 2mm hole saw cuts and weld up pilot hole
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Weld on
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Grind the other side flat
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Clean up and stitch weld turrets and engine mounts
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Etch primer for temporary protection
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light skim of filler needed later
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Front end fitted again to check it still lines up
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Loads of space for rads etc, oil cooler to go infront too (need to buy!)
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Will attack the underside when it goes back on jig
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Lastly, some parts have been arriving

CAE shifter
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GRP4 hydraulic handbrake (sorry for bad pic!)
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OBP pedal box
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GTXTRA
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Re: WINSTON 1988 GT MK2

Post by GTXTRA » Mon May 11, 2020 9:04 pm

VERY impressive - the detachable front end treatment reminiscent of Paul at the Phirm and the custom front end on his TFSI engined Mk2 Golf.


Serial Rocco-ist.........

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C 20 CCO
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Re: WINSTON 1988 GT MK2

Post by C 20 CCO » Mon May 11, 2020 9:56 pm

This is way out of my league, and enjoying following this build very much. Especially in our current lockdown situation. Keep up the great work, it’s riveting, not that I’ve seen many rivets!! :beers:


kind regards,

Dave.

To be old and wise......
You must first be young and stupid!

In the garage : 2005 Volvo V50 2L D in brilliant blue metallic.
2011 Mazda2 Tamura in vibrant ebony metallic.
Prized possession- 1991 GT11 in Pearl green metallic.

SimonB
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Re: WINSTON 1988 GT MK2

Post by SimonB » Sat May 16, 2020 10:40 am

Excellent work! Brilliant project! It's going to be brilliant when done! :-D


97 MK2 GTX Project - Build thread started finally! http://www.sciroccoregister.co.uk/carfo ... 19&t=22110
68 Beetle
04 Beetle

treefingers
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Re: WINSTON 1988 GT MK2

Post by treefingers » Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:44 pm

Thanks all, and I'm sure some rivets will appear soon.

New radiator - Ford Sierra Cosworth RS500. I wanted a rad that had the outlets at opposite corners, where the coolant pipes are in the 1.8t setup, and stumbled upon this rad on ebay. It's the same size as the Corrado VR6 rad pictured, even the pipe diameters match! Well chuffed to find this as I was thinking of cutting and welding end tanks to make this arrangement!
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I fabricated some new strut braces, with laser profiles..
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Adding strength to the inner wings, 1.5mm steel bent in the brake press and then clamped and hammered around a bit of box section
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Dimple die holes in the strengthening plates.. the tower is to hold the bonnet aero catch. It was really tricky to make this as it had to avoid the lights and intercooler pipes, and aim at a good place on the bonnet. It's made from 2mm steel, and the top mounting part is 3mm steel.
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Adding some holes in the top panel for cooling, and because they look cool with dimple dies!
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Then I decided to buy the SLR camera I have wanted for like 2 years, and it's so much better. I got a Canon 200d, I had a 450D years ago and got rid of it because the low light was awful, but I still wanted to take photos. Camera tech has come on, all wireless connection now, so good!

I did some welding up..
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Added some strengthening bars to the turrets. HENCH now. Plated with 3mm steel on the chassis legs, I will plate the turrets on the inside (for aesthetics)
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The aluminium bosses on my crossmember mark the location of the intercooler and radiator, they will be welded to the bottom of each. They sit in grommets.
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I made flanges around the end of the chassis legs. Each flange is made from one piece of folded 1.5mm steel formed around the chassis leg. I plug welded them in and then welded in the corners that I had to cut to make it work. Then with the front end done FINALLY I epoxy primed everything for temporary sealing. Lots of runs for good measure but I was more concerned about getting all the awkward places sealed up. I was using etch primer but the epoxy is a resin and is sealed to the elements. I'll be using a lot of it on the build.
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The top of this tower will hold an m8 pin for the bonnet catch (yet to be drilled)
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On to the bulkhead now..

Remnants of the raintray removed with a spotweld drill and various grinders, and a large hole has appeared in the bulkhead!
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I'm getting rid of all the standard bulkhead holes and going to redrill for what I need. Things that don't need to go through bulkhead:
accelerator cable
clutch cable (this hole was a rusty rustness)
brake linkage
brake servo

The reason for not using a rain tray is to make the car easy to work on, so I can get around the back of the engine no trouble. Looks are a part of it, but function is #1 here. I'm not making a sit-in-a-garage-sit-in-a-field-car, so I still want a heater. You can't delete the rain tray and keep the heater as it is as it draws in engine fumes, no good at all. The original plan was to cover the fan and run a duct to the inner wing. This was until I realised all the brake dust that I'd throw up there on a track day. Noope I don't be wanting that. After some discussion with my mates at work, a new plan was hatched, to use the chassis leg as the inlet for the heater, and run a different (and better) fan underneath the dashboard, blowing through the original Scirocco heater matrix. Will give me heat to the dash and the windscreen, I won't run it to my feet as that makes it a lot more complicated. Unless I can think something up, in which case I will!

Another hole appeared
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Flat bulkheads are boring so I kept the curves with my blanking plate. used 1.2mm steel. I'm loving 1.2mm, really easy to get penetration. For a small detail I added an x-bend in the fan blanking plate.
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Just needs grinding smooth now.
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Fan inlet then!! The plan is to cut all this out and cover back up, creating a duct that runs from the front of the car to the bulkhead.
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I think some rodent had made it's home here!
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Hole growing as I work out what I'm doing.. the chassis leg will need to be sealed all the way to the front to stop engine fumes being drawn in.
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Ducting inside the car with 1.2mm steel
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My plan is to use 4" flexible tube from this outlet to the new fan inside the car.
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The duct is offset slightly to deal with bulkhead shapes/maintain cross sectional area etc.
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Welded and grinded
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Ducting location..
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Inside the car.
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