Fuelling problem gtx fuel distributor repair recondition

Carbs; K-jet; Tanks; Lines; Filler necks, Senders; aftermarket fuel systems; Exhausts and Manifolds;air filters - standard and aftermarket

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Ade1
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Fuelling problem gtx fuel distributor repair recondition

Post by Ade1 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:36 pm

hi all

I'm needing some assistance with my gtx with fuelling problem.

Its been sat for a few years on my mum's drive while having babies and family and work took priority. Sitting there slowly rusting away I now need to do something about it and was going to get it mot'd.
It gets turned over every couple of months and moved a little so it doesn't seize but last time was before Christmas...
I charged the battery up and put it in then with hope turned the key. It started but wouldn't fire up. Tried a few times same thing. Fuel didn't seem to be getting to the front so I had a look underneath the back of car by the fuel tank. The pump is making noises and seems to be working so I'm assuming the filter is blocked. But when I tried to take off the braided hose that feeds onto the fuel line up to the engine bay fuel poured out.
I'm a bit out of my depth tbh as have no experience with injection models. I don't have any equipment with me either as I live in Bradford now and my mum's is in North London. Luckily I managed to coble together some spanners that fitted but currently the car is sat on some bricks while I lie on cardboard and get under the car. Is there anyone in the north London area that is willing to come and help me. I want to stick a new filter in to eliminate that before shelling out on a new fuel pump.
I tried to get the filter out but do I have to remove the pump to get it out or is it just a case of tsking the pipes off and getting covered in petrol :?
Also... Not sure if I managed to upload a photo, do I need a tinypic account for it to work?

Image
Last edited by Ade1 on Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:23 pm, edited 4 times in total.



craigwalton
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Re: Fuel filter removal gtx

Post by craigwalton » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:35 pm

You don't need to remove or disconnect the fuel pump to remove the fuel filter in the engine bay. Normally to reduce the fuel pressure in the system, you'd remove fuel pump fuse then run her until she stops. In your case, maybe just turn her over for 15 secs maybe? Then you're good to undo braided lines to filter and only some petrol will weep out.

This is a good reference for fuse numbers http://clubgti.com/showthread.php?219775-Fusebox-FAQ

I don't know enough about the differences between Mk2 Scirocco models but my Scala has a "fuel lift pump" inside the tank itself (in addition to the external fuel pump), which you access by removing rear bench (2 screws), then an inspection hatch (3 screws), then twisting and removing the cover on the tank you'll see. Though beware you may need to renew the o-ring seal if you take it off. Not 100% sure if a gtx has a lift pump too. Looking into here you'll see if there is much crud in the tank and you'll be able to check if the lift pump's filter has lots of gunk blocking it. If you've got a magnet on a stick, you might be able to lift some of the rust out of the tank.

Photo didn't work for me - just a tinypic logo there.



Jerry Atric
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Re: Fuel filter removal gtx

Post by Jerry Atric » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:58 pm

My '86 GTX certainly has a lift pump in the tank, and after 19 years of being in a barn, not only was the filter gummed up but so was the lift pump and the hose connecting to the sender unit was just about disintegrating.

A good place to start the investigation for sure.



Ade1
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Re: Fuel filter removal gtx

Post by Ade1 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:16 pm

hi guys thanks for the replies.

I'm not sure if I have this right but is there 2 filters inline.
One is located in engine bay before injection but the other is at the back next to the fuel tank.

So there's fuel tank - then fuel pump - then fuel filter.

I tried to get a replacement at gsf but they only had one that looked like the one in the engine bay. The fuel goes in the top and out the bottom of the filter.

The one under the back of the car (next to the pump by the tank) has the fuel going in and out at the top.

I will try post pics when I get home as I'm sat in gsf Tottenham car park at the moment getting hot and bothered.
:x



Ade1
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Re: Fuel filter removal gtx

Post by Ade1 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:19 pm

This is the one I found at gsf but looks nothing like the one at the back.

https://m.gsfcarparts.com/121vg0070



Ade1
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Re: Fuel filter removal gtx

Post by Ade1 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:47 pm

Hoping this upload of photo works...

Is this a fuel filter at the back next to the pump or is this part of the pump?
It has fuel going in at top from the electric pump and then going back out at the top (braided hose at front of pic)
Sorry for the bad photo my lens is damaged on my phone.
There's a pipe behind the braided one that sends fuel in from the pump but it is a bit difficult to see.
Then the braided hose feeds into the main fuel supply up to the engine bay.


<a href="http://s1149.photobucket.com/user/ade1r ... d.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o59 ... ec195d.jpg" border="0" alt="Fuel filter back photo DSC_1154_zpsn6ec195d.jpg"></a>



Ade1
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Re: Fuel filter removal gtx

Post by Ade1 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:49 pm

Image



craigwalton
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Re: Fuel filter removal gtx

Post by craigwalton » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:03 pm

The filter from gsf you linked visually looks like the one in the engine bay.

The flow on my '92 Scala is:
Fuel lift pump (in tank)
Fuel filter
Fuel pump (external)
Accumulator
Fuel filter (engine bay)
K-jet head unit

This will help http://www.oemepc.com/vw/part_single/ca ... 212/lang/e



duggers
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Re: Fuel filter removal gtx

Post by duggers » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:46 pm

Lift pump in tank, reservoir next to tank, pump, accumulator, engine bay filter, fuel metering head.
When my GTX was laid up it was the fuel in the injector lines that had left so much gunk that fuel wasn't flowing.
Whereabouts in North London as I visit may parents in Enfield regularly and may be able to pop in if you aren't too far away.


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mark1gls
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Re: Fuel filter removal gtx

Post by mark1gls » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:09 pm

How old is the petrol in the tank?
Petrol goes off after 6 months to a year.

The thing which looks like a fuel filter near the fuel pump underneath the car is the accumulator, it holds the fuel pressure in the injection system to help with hot starting.

Main fuel pump and accumulator
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mk1-golf-gti- ... Sw~epZgj44

Accumulator
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BOSCH-Fuel-In ... Swo6lWF6Ey

Sorry for the eBay links but can post up pictures now photobucket wants silly money to host pics.

The car will run if the accumulator is faulty you will just have problems starting the car when it's hot till the fuel pressure increases so will take more cranking to start, when cold the 5th injector and warm up valve will add more petrol.

The filter in the engine bay is the main filter which should be changed and it should be under pressure if you loosen the connections to it so watch out for spraying petrol and have a cloth handy to catch the petrol and don't tip the filter as it should be full of petrol.
Every 2 years or 20,000 miles is when you should replace the main fuel filter.

There is a filter/gauze on the end of the lift fuel pump inside the fuel tank and another filter/gauze in the fuel line going into the fuel pump underneath the car and that's it for filters, these 2 filter/gauzes do not need replacing unless damaged and can be cleaned.

I would check inside the fuel for rust etc buy removing the lift pump and fuel gauge sender (access via the hole underneath the back seat) if still not starting or lack of fuel at the engine.


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DannyH
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Re: Fuel filter removal gtx

Post by DannyH » Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:18 am

"But when I tried to take off the braided hose that feeds onto the fuel line up to the engine bay fuel poured out. "

i ain't the brightist but if the fuel's pouring out i'd tend to assume that nothing before there's the problem?


Danny

Ade1
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Re: Fuel filter removal gtx

Post by Ade1 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:04 am

hi
Sorry for late response, I thought my notifications were set up right to tell me I'd got replies but didn't get any.



Thanks for all the replies! Loads of great info!
Not used to a gtx injection system having only ever owned carburettor models.


So I had mistaken the accumulator for a filter, that's what I tried to remove.

I will change the filter at the front and see if that helps.

The fuel in the car is old so I suspect that is the culprit.
I'll stick some fresh petrol in, maybe that'll shift some gunk. Should I try a fuel additive, worried I'll end up bursting a fuel pipe as they are the original fuel pipes and look a bit rusty. Don't want to be in a position where I can't get the car to the garage without towing it :?


Hey duggers I am not far from Enfield. My mums is between Southgate and Palmers Green. Would be great if you could give me a hand.
I'm heading back to Bradford today as I have work tonight and early in the week but will be back Thursday and should be here for a while as I'm helping her get ready to move house hence the need to get the rocco started!



Ade1
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Re: Fuel filter removal gtx

Post by Ade1 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:07 am

Just a quick thought

Considering the petrol is old and no good am I better off trying to get rid of the old stuff first before putting fresh petrol in?



DannyH
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Re: Fuel filter removal gtx

Post by DannyH » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:43 pm

in the past i've used Wynne's dry fuelwhich may help?


Danny

mark1gls
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Re: Fuel filter removal gtx

Post by mark1gls » Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:22 pm

How much petrol is in the tank and when was any fresh fuel added?

The fuel injection system runs at a high psi compared to modern cars so any rusty fuel hoses would blow quickly, being underneath the car they do get a far share of mud and water thrown at them so can look crusty on 1st glance but usually are solid unless to far gone. Get it started and running and consider replacing the fuel lines at some point.

It is worth having a good look inside the fuel tank as when left with little fuel in the tank can rust away inside and lead to rust particles entering the fuel system and that will cause sorts of head aches and money to fix.


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