Help me get to Cosford! (Fuel Pump Issues)

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goaferboy
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Help me get to Cosford! (Fuel Pump Issues)

Post by goaferboy »

Well, the RAC man had to make a trip to see me again. Long story short, my fuel pump was knackered. I've had a bit of history with fuel pumps so here's the short version:

Had troubles with the car as documented in another thread (it was the carb in the end).
Whilst trying to fix it, I put fuel pump number 2 on. I kept number 1, since it turned out it was fine.
I took the car to the garage, where they fitted pump number 3, since number 2 was leaking.
2 got binned.
RAC man came out today, and diagnosed that pump 3 was shit and pumping nothing.
We refitted pump 1 and the car runs lovely, although pump 1 now leaks fuel.

So as you can see, I have had 2 leaky pumps, so I need some advice.

1. What fuel pump would you guys recommend? Pump 2 (leaky) was a Meyle and I don't know what pump 3 (stopped pumping after a few weeks) is.

2. Fitting. Is there anything I could be doing wrong to cause the leak? The RAC man said that if the gasket between the pump and the bit it bolts to is wrong/bad, it would leak oil instead of fuel, so it's more than likely the gasket in the middle of the pump, so my fitment shouldn't make a difference. 2 leaky pumps in the space of months does have me questioning my methods though!

3. There was a thick rubber gasket between the pump and the bit it bolts to. It was about an inch or so thick, maybe slightly thinner. Is this needed? Me and the RAC man were trying to think if it was specific to the pump that the garage fitted (pump 3) or if it should go on all pumps.


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james butler
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Re: Help me get to Cosford! (Fuel Pump Issues)

Post by james butler »

hey luke.
yes the thick rubber bit is definately needed!! this sets a gap between the pump and the block so the lever inside sits in the correct place and lifts up and down by the correct amount. without it the lever is forced up to high causing permenant damage to the pump.
i took mine out to try it once and knackered the pump pretty quickly.
they arent hard to come by as blueshark pointed out to someone on here where to buy the rubber spacer from.


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james butler
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Re: Help me get to Cosford! (Fuel Pump Issues)

Post by james butler »

it would be a good time to upgrade
https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/scirocc ... StartRow=1
put the pump on a switch in the cabin so you can turn it on and off manually.
makes a good immobilizer if you hide the switch well


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goaferboy
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Re: Help me get to Cosford! (Fuel Pump Issues)

Post by goaferboy »

james butler wrote:hey luke.
yes the thick rubber bit is definately needed!! this sets a gap between the pump and the block so the lever inside sits in the correct place and lifts up and down by the correct amount. without it the lever is forced up to high causing permenant damage to the pump.
i took mine out to try it once and knackered the pump pretty quickly.
they arent hard to come by as blueshark pointed out to someone on here where to buy the rubber spacer from.
Good job we left it on then! Just didn't know whether to take it off when I fit the new pump or not. The one on there looks like it may possibly be new, so I don't think I need a new one.
james butler wrote:it would be a good time to upgrade
https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/scirocc ... StartRow=1
put the pump on a switch in the cabin so you can turn it on and off manually.
makes a good immobilizer if you hide the switch well
The RAC guy did mention an electronic one and I am tempted. How would I go about fitting one? I assume it would go in the same place in the fuel line as the existing pump, but how would be best to wire it? Direct to the battery with a switch or splice it in somewhere? I'll admit, wiring is a weak point of mine!

Would I need to leave the old pump on to blank the gap where it fits or is there a blank plate available?
Last edited by goaferboy on Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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james butler
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Re: Help me get to Cosford! (Fuel Pump Issues)

Post by james butler »

http://www.ebay.de/itm/ZWISCHENFLANSCH- ... 1576583913
this is the part your after
this is the thread its from
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=18719


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james butler
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Re: Help me get to Cosford! (Fuel Pump Issues)

Post by james butler »

ah i see my bad i didnt read your post right,
to be honest they do say to pipe them in close to the petrol tank to make sucking up fuel easier
in essence the wiring is easy.
take a live from the battery to a fuse, then to a relay, then from the relay to the pump, then from the pump to earth.
next take a live from the fuse box in the car to a switch in a convenient location on the dash, then from the switch down to the relay and to earth again.
when you turn the switch on the relay will turn on the fuel pump.
easy.
just make sure you put a fuse in any wires you take directly from the battery!


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goaferboy
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Re: Help me get to Cosford! (Fuel Pump Issues)

Post by goaferboy »

I'll be honest, that sounds a bit complicated to me, especially since I'll be doing it in a rush to get to Cosford next weekend. I'd rather not be experimenting with things this close to the meetup!

Is there a decent mechanical pump you guys would recommend? Anyone know if GSF has good ones? It would be ideal if they did, since I could just get one tomorrow, fit it and see if it leaks throughout the week.


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james butler
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Re: Help me get to Cosford! (Fuel Pump Issues)

Post by james butler »

i used a peirburg one with lots of screws in the top so you can rebuild it if things go wrong.
im not so keen on gsf as ive had some bad experiences with parts failing premeturely.
i tend to go with euro car parts
i believe the fuel pump between 1.6 and 1.8 are the same so i went with one of these last time
http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Volks ... 8fa&000148
its still on the car now and hasnt failed yet.


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james butler
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Re: Help me get to Cosford! (Fuel Pump Issues)

Post by james butler »

by the way have you got a fuel filter fitted before the pump or after the pump?


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goaferboy
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Re: Help me get to Cosford! (Fuel Pump Issues)

Post by goaferboy »

james butler wrote:by the way have you got a fuel filter fitted before the pump or after the pump?
I'm fairly certain it's before. It's a new filter, although I left the previous filter on for ages and it was still pretty clean when I took it off.

I've got the failed pump here and I was tempted to take it apart and see if it was clogged.


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james butler
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Re: Help me get to Cosford! (Fuel Pump Issues)

Post by james butler »

i would definitely take it apart, see whats wrong with it and that might tell you how it failed in the first place.
one of my biggest gripes about this design is the fact the pumps bolted to a hot block, granted there's a spacer there trying to prevent heat transfer, but in my opinion vw should have given these cars an electric fuel pump the same way they gave the gti`s one.
however it does seem every carbed car ive looked at usually has a mechanical fuel pump as standard.


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goaferboy
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Re: Help me get to Cosford! (Fuel Pump Issues)

Post by goaferboy »

So I took it apart and nothing seems wrong. It wasn't dirty and there were no breaks in the rubber seal.

Once I put it back together, I put the "in" pipe into water and it pumped the water through fine. Maybe the screws weren't tight before so it had a leak, preventing it from pumping?

I might try and put it back on the car tomorrow and see what happens. I blew air into one end and sealed the other and it's air tight, so hopefully no leaks.


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james butler
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Re: Help me get to Cosford! (Fuel Pump Issues)

Post by james butler »

try pushing the lever up and hold your hand over the in pipe the lever should stay up as there will be vacuum there because your hand is in the way.
if it wont then its drawing in air somewhere.
make sure you dry that pump out properly before you fit it as you dont want water in there.
it may sound daft but have you checked all your fuel pipe connections?
mine keep cracking up and perishing causing air leaks so the pump struggles to suck up the fuel. ive replaced the fuel pipe countless times but allways with the same outcome.
this could be another source for your leak.


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goaferboy
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Re: Help me get to Cosford! (Fuel Pump Issues)

Post by goaferboy »

james butler wrote:try pushing the lever up and hold your hand over the in pipe the lever should stay up as there will be vacuum there because your hand is in the way.
if it wont then its drawing in air somewhere.
make sure you dry that pump out properly before you fit it as you dont want water in there.
it may sound daft but have you checked all your fuel pipe connections?
mine keep cracking up and perishing causing air leaks so the pump struggles to suck up the fuel. ive replaced the fuel pipe countless times but allways with the same outcome.
this could be another source for your leak.
I will check the fuel pipes tomorrow just in case, but I'm fairly sure there's no leaks there. The leak I have is running down the bit beneath the pump, with no leaks near the pipes going in/out of the pump. I'll double check tomorrow though.

There was definitely something up with this pump when it was on the car, as we took the out pipe off and no fuel came out when we turned it over. There was definitely fuel getting to the pump though, as he tested the pipe with a hand pump.


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james butler
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Re: Help me get to Cosford! (Fuel Pump Issues)

Post by james butler »

when its apart there is a one way valve that must function, this is another reason for doing the "vacuum with your hand" test if it doesnt function it wont suck.
to be honest with you if you have bench tested it and it now works it should be fine. the only way to find out is to try it.
wish you all the best and look forward to seeing you at the meet.


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